Gazankulu Legislative Assembly. Report of the Sessional Committee on Public Accounts

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Gazankulu ( South Africa ) . Legislative Assembly . Sessional Committee on Public Accounts .

Report .

RD

NFO

STA

HJ 82.3 G39639A 1983

S

ARIE

LIBR

D R O S

F N

E

HOOVER INSTITUTION on War, Revolution , and Peace FOUNDED BY HERBERT HOOVER, 1919

SA

5543 KG

9

2D

FORD

STAN

YA

MINTIRHO .

GAZANKULU

•

VULAVULA

LEGISLATIVE

ASSEMBLY

REPORT

THE

OF

SESSIONAL

COMMITTEE

ON

PUBLIC

ACCOUNTS

1983

S

ARIE

LIBR

1.

RULE 144 ( b ) OF THE STANDING RULES OF PROCEDURE OF THE GAZANKULU LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

As soon as possible after the beginning of each session the Legislative Assembly shall appoint the following Sessional Committees each consisting of five members

(b)

including the Chairman thereof : -

On Public Accounts whose terms of reference shall be to examine and report to the Assembly upon : -

(i)

the accounts showing the appropriation of the sums granted by the Assembly to meet public expenditure ;

( ii )

and

the annual Report of the Auditor - General which report shall stand referred to the Sessional Committee ;

and the report of the Sessional Committee shall be

laid upon the Table

whereupon such report shall be formally considered by the Assembly .

- 2 -

ANNOUNCEMENT

27 April 1983 :

The following Honourable members have been appointed as members of the Sessional Committee on Gazankulu Government Accounts : -

Chief N.C.

Mr. M.G. Rev. Mr.

L.B. I.K.

Mr. S.H.

Mathebula

Mnisi Kubay Nkanyani Khosa

The Committee has been empowered

in terms of Rule 151 to

take evidence and call for papers .

MATTERS REFERRED TO THE COMMITTEE

27 April 1983 :

Report of the Auditor - General on the Accounts of the Gazankulu Government and of the Accounts of Lower Authorities in the area for the financial year 1981/82 referred to the Committee in terms of Rule 144 ( B ) .

27 April 1983 :

Reply of the Treasury to the Resolution of the First Report of the Sessional Committee on Gazankulu Accounts , tabled .

Recommended

that

it be

1982 ,

referred to the Sessional

Committee on Gazankulu Accounts 1983 .

- 3 --

FIRST

REPORT

Resolution 1 :

CHANGES IN THE FORM OF THE ESTIMATES OF EXPENDITURE .

Amendment of the presentation of Standard Items .

Your Committee having heard and considered evidence ,

is of

the opinion that the Estimates of Expenditure under the system of budgeting by objectives in respect of the presentation according to standard items ,

in future be presented to the

Legislative Assembly as information only and agrees with the suggestions as it appears in the memorandum .

Your Committee

recommends accordingly .

( Question 1 )

Conference Room , Legislative Assembly , GIYANI

e

Math 27 April 1983

CHAIRMAN

aula

- 4 -

TREASURY MEMORANDUM ON CHANGES IN THE FORM OF THE ESTIMATES OF EXPENDITURE .

AMENDMENT OF THE PRESENTATION OF STANDARD ITEMS .

1.

The Republican Select Committee on Public Accounts during 1982 session gave approval that

in future the Estimates of

Expenditure under the system of budgeting by objectives which are presented to the House of Assembly be amended so that the estimates in

respect of Standard Items be presented

as information only and that the title " Items " be substituted for " Main divisions "

in the summarised presentation according

to Standard Items .

2.

The Auditor - General indicated that his Office position ,

and also intends

is

now in a

to , adjust audit procedures in

such a manner that auditing of the Programme Structure alone will be undertaken .

3.

In order to bring this aspect

in line with the Republican

estimates it is suggested that a similar procedure be adopted with the Estimates of Expenditure Government .

BTREASURY

DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE GAZANKULU

in

respect of the Gazankulu

- 5-

SECOND

UNAUTHORISED

REPORT

EXPENDITURE

( 1981-82 )

Resolution 2 .

Your Committee begs to report that items of expenditure amounting to R3 417 286,90 specified

in paragraph 4 ,

page 2 ,

of the Report of the

Auditor- General on the Appropriation Accounts for 1981-82 are unauthorised and require to

Your Committee ,

( G.R.

1983 )

be voted .

having made enquiry into the circumstances ,

recommend s

the above sum for specific appropriation by the Legislative Assembly , apportioned as follows : -

On Revenue Services R Vote 2 - Interior Vote 3 - Works

300 835,10 1 072 675,19

Vote 4 - Education

155 878,95

Vote 5 · Agriculture and Forestry

625 119,74

Vote 7 - Health and Welfare

1 262 777,92

R3 417 286,90

(Questions 2 - 8)

Conference Room , Legislative Assembly , GIYANI . e

Moth

27 April 1983 CHAIRMAN

6 -

PROCEEDINGS OF THE COMMITTEE

PROCEEDINGS OF THE SESSIONAL COMMITTEE ON GAZANKULU ACCOUNTS ,

Appointed in terms of Rule

144 ( B ) of the Rules of Procedure of the

Gazankulu Legislative Assembly , N.C. Mathebula ( Chairman ) , and Mr.

S.H.

1983 .

Mr.

the Committee consisting of Chief

M.G.

Mnisi ,

Rev.

L.B.

Kubay ,

Mr.I.K.

Nkanayani

Khosa .

WEDNESDAY 27 APRIL 1983

PRESENT

Mr.

P.J.

Bakkes -

Mr. W.M.N.

Erasmus

Assistant Chief Auditor Auditor- General

representing the

Senior Auditor

Mr. M.S.

Muhlarhi -

Mr.

J.D.

Mativandlela -

Secretary for the Department of the Interior

Mr.

J.P.

du Plessis -

Secretary for the Department of Works

Mr. S.D.C. Vukela -

Mr.

T.L.P.

Mr.

N.

N.

Mr. A.M.

Kruger

Sithole

Hlungwani -

Assistant Secretary for the Department of the Chief Minister and Economic Affairs

Secretary for the Department of Education Secretary for the Department of Agriculture and Forestty

Acting Secretary for the Department of Health and Welfare

Assistant Secretary for the Department of Justice

Mr. G.H.P. Maris -

Secretary for the Department of Finance

Mr. M.F. Mdungazi

Deputy Secretary for the Department of Finance .

Colonel J. Sono

Department of Police

Mr. H.S.

Nkuna -

Secretary to the Treasury

Mr. A.D.

Makondo -

Clerk of the Committee

Mr.

G. Hlomela -

Mr. A.E.

Grundlingh -

Assistant Clerk of the Committee

Chief Accountant Department of Finance .

- 7 -

Clerk reads Rule

144 ( B )

of the Procedure of the Gazankulu Legislative

Assembly and the Speaker of the Legislative Assemlby's announcement constituting the Committee .

Clerk intimated that the Committee would proceed to the election of Chairman .

Whereupon ,

on the motion of Rev. L.B.

Resolved :

That Chief N.C.

Kubay

Mathebula be Chairman .

The chairman welcomed

members and officials

On the motion of the chairman

Resolved :

That the evidence given before the Committee be in English and be recorded verbatim insofar as it

is practicable to do so .

The Committee resumed the consideration of the Report of the Auditor - General on Accounts of the Gazankulu Government 1981-82 .

Mr. W.M.N.

Erasmus ,

Senior Auditor ,

Mr. M.S. Muhlarhi , Assistant Secretary

for the Department of the Chief Minister and Economic Affairs , Mr.

J.D. Mativandlela , Secretary for the Department of the Interior ,

Mr. J.P. du Plessis , Secretary for the Department of Works , Secretary for the Department of Education , Mr. the Department of Agriculture and Forestry , Mr.

T.L.P.

Mr.

Kruger ,

N.N. Sithole ,

Secretary for the Department of Health and Welfare ,

Mr.

Secretary for the Department of Finance , and Mr. H.S.

G.H.P.

S.D.C.

Vukela ,

Secretary for Acting Marais ,

Nkuna Secretary to

the Treasury were examined .

At 12hrs50 Chairman announced that there were still eight items on the programme to be discussed and asked the Committee to adjourn for one hour . The Committee resumed the consideration of the last eight

items in the

programme at 14h.00 .

The Chairman announced that the programme had been completed and that the Committee had nothing to discuss .

He thanked the members for their

attendance and Co - operation and Mr.

The Committee deleberated and at

Bakkes for his assistance and guidance .

15h.00

adjourned sine dîe .

- 8-

THIRD

Your Committee ,

REPORT

having considered and examined the remainder of the

Report of the Auditor - General on the Accounts of the Gazankulu Government and of the Accounts of Lower Authorities in the area for the financial year 1981-82 referred to it , herewith ,

and having taken evidence which it

submits

has no further comments to make upon it .

Conference Room , Legislative Assembly, GIYANI . ula 27 April 1983 .

AMathe CHAIRMAN

1 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE WEDNESDAY ,

27 APRIL 1983 ( at

10h.00)

TREASURY MEMORANDUM ON CHANGES IN THE FORM OF THE ESTIMATE OF EXPENDITURE

(Chairman ) :

We will firstly deal with the Treasury memorandum on the changes in the form of the estimates of expenditure .

Could the Treasury please put the

memorandum before the Committee .

( Mr.

H.S.

Nkuna ) :

Mr. Chairman ,

the Republican Select Committee on

Public Accounts during the 1982 session gave approval that

in future the Estimates of Expenditure

under the system of sudgeting by objectives which are presented to the House of Assembly be amended so that the estimates in respect of Standard Items be presented as information only and that the title " Item " be substituted for " Main divisions "

in the

summarised presentation according to Standard Items .

The Auditor - General indicated that now in a position ,

and also intends

his office to ,

is

adjust

audit procedures in such a manner that auditing of the Programme Structure alone will be undertaken .

In order to bring this aspect

in

line with the

Republican estimates it is suggested that a similar procedure of Expenditure

be adopted with the Estimates

in respect of the Gazankulu

Government .

( Rev. L.B.

Kubay ) :

Mr Erasmus

it shall be appreciated if you could

explain the implications for your office .

( Mr. Erasmus ) :

Mr Chairman ,

prior to the introduction of the

Budgeting by Objectives System ,

presentation

of appropriations were based on certain standard

- 10 -

items such as salaries ,

wages and allowances ,

Subsistance and transport etc.

Therefore our

audit procedures as far as expenditure were based on these standard items .

is concerned

The introduction

of the new System brings about a new classification of information data .

A new standard item

classification was drawn up for estimation purposes such as Personnel expenditure ; expenditure ,

stores and

administrative

live stock etc.

Apart

from this new standard item classification a programme structure which sets out the broad objectives of the Parliament and for which funds are applied for and which are undertaken for the attainment of these objectives ,

was also

introduced .

This dual presentation of appropriation accounts , Mr. Chairman ,

is equivalent

In this regard Mr.

in all respect .

Chairman ,

I am of the opinion

that we must look to the meaning expressed by the Treasury of the Central Government .

When the

Treasury originally approached the Committee on the

changing in the form of the Estimates ,

it was

said that the Parliament was basically interested in policy and that Parliament must approve the programme structure .

The Standard items should be

seen as cost components only which are presented to Parliament for information purposes . implications of all this Mr.

Chairman ,

The is that

accounting officials should then in due course only reflect the programme structure in their

appropriation accounts .

(Chairman ) :

Mr.

( Mr. Bakkes ) :

Will I just sum up what have been said Mr.

Bakkes have you anything to say .

basically what

it amounts to .

chairman ,

There is no change

basically as far as estimates are concerned ,

they

are to be presented to Parliament as in the past .

-11 -

The only thing is that your standard items- when you look at your estimates instead of them being classified also as the main division apart from your programme structure will now only be reflected as items which will then be presented to your Parliament as information only .

And what will

happen after that is that when we prepare our report , we will only publish one appropriation account instead of two as you can see in the annual report

So the

infront of the Committee .

Accounting Officer will only prepare one appropriation account from the programme structure and give one set of explanations while he show a saving or an excess on a particular programme . As in the past his financial section will still prepare the accounting records which still remain the same .

They will still produce the standard

items every month in their ledgers ,

because this

will help them in preparing their future budgets which is based on the standard items .

So what we

are doing is just cutting down on the extra work . Nothing changes except that the main division of the standard item is now just classified as normal item .

(Rev.

Kubay ) :

A further question Mr.

Erasmus .

Are you prepared

to carry out your audit according to the programme structure .

(Mr.

Erasmus ) :

Yes Mr.

Chairman ,

we have already switched to the

programme structure .

Our audit programmes are

drawn - up to conduct our audit according to previously determined

( Rev. Kubay ) :

Mr. Erasmus ,

objectives .

did you experience any difficulty in

carrying out audits according to the programme structure .

- 12 -

(Mr. Erasmus ) :

No Mr. Chairman ,

actually we are still uncertain

about the extent of programmes to be covered , there are already signs that we will achieve more efficiency .

but

- 13 .-

UNAUTHORISED EXPENDITURE :

(Mr. Chairman ) :

PARAGRAPH 4 ,

according to the explanation

Mr. Mativandlela , furnished ,

PAGE 2 .

the unauthorised expenditure was

attributed mainly to the

increase

in pension

allowances as well as the suspension of funds for technical equipment for which arrangements could In view of what is said here ,

not be finalised . could you please

(a )

inform the committee :

to what extent does the increase in pension allowances contribute to the excess on vote and ,

(b)

(Mr. Mativandlela ) :

why additional appropriation was not applied for .

Mr. Chairman ,

the average number of pensioners who

received their pension allowances during the 1981/82 financial year is 16 158.

The allowances payable

to each pensioner as at 31/03/81 R59-00 .

was ,

on the average ,

This amount was paid bi - monthly .

The

total amount for the whole financial year should have been 16 158x59x6 = R5 719 932-00 .

However , the amount of R5 302 800 had originally been budgeted ,

which amount was sufficient for only

R15 117 pensioners group O- old

if all are classified

age pension .

under

In addition new The

pensioners were taken over from Phalaborwa .

general increase of R7-00 per pensioner per month which took effect from 01/10/1981

resulted

in an

additional funds of R7x5x16158 = R565 530-00 .

In addition to the increase mentioned above ,

two

bonuses of R18-00 per pensioner were paid out in May and November 1982 respectively .

These bonuses

resulted in an additional amount of R581

688-00 for

which provision had originally not been made . The total amount for the 1981/82 Financial year should thus have been R6 867 150-00 .

- 14 -

In answering the second question Mr.

Chairman ,

we did apply for the additional funds , was limited by the Treasury .

but this

Instead of the amount

of R1,5 million which we had applied for , we received only an amount of R1,3 million additional estimates .

At the time ,

that

in the is

March 1982 , when the amount of R60 000 was suspended , the January ledger reflected that there would be a saving of R67 000-00 . However , this amount was absorbed by the payment of the amount which had accummulated during the previous three months .

(Mr. Mnisi ) :

Mr. Mativandlela why was it not possible to make provision for the bonuses in your original estimates .

(Mr. Mativandlela ) :

Mr. Chairman ,

the bonuses usually are announced after

we have made our ariginal estimates that is usually after the

( Mr. Mnisi ) :

Republican Government has submitted its budget .

Why could the amount suspended not be utilised to defray the excess on this programme .

( Mr.

Mativandlela ) :

As I have already indicated that during March 1982 when the R60 000 was suspended ,

the January

ledger reflected that these would be an anticipated saving and later we found out that the funds were already absorbed by the payments which came in during that month .

The date of suspension is

earlier than the end of the financial year ,

so you

suspend and suddenly you find accounts which come immediately thereafter and they arbsorbe that amount which you have suspended .

( Mr. Khosa ) :

I understand there were new Phalaborwa pensioners were they added to 16158 old

pensioners or was these

an additional amount from which they were paid .

- 15 -

(Mr. Mativandlela ) :

We have originally budgeted for 15117 pensioners . The Phalaborwa pensioners were over and above the number which we had ourselves so that the increased the number and they came with the amount which they got from the Central Government .

As we know there

is always a delay in transfering funds from the Central Government to our Government and by the time we receive the money we have already exhuasted our funds .

(Chairman ) :

Mr. Mativandlela ,

could you also furnish more

details regarding the technical equipment and why was it not possible to finalised the arrangements .

( Mr. Mativandlela ) :

Mr. Chairman ,

although we have a written reply here

there are some technical

issues which I have to

explain before I read this reply . three channels of radio phones ,

Gazankulu

had

that is channel

1 , 2 and 3 and it so happended because of growth that this channels became overloaded and we needed the fourth in order to relieve the load in the exsiting channels .

When we were still doing so it

so happened that channel 3 which was based at Maripiskop had to be removed forcing us to remain with two channels .

Then we have a difficult of

remaining with two channels and finding a home for the third channels which was removed at Maripiskop .

In trying to find a home for this

channel we have to do a lot of negotiations with the Central Government ,

the Post office and the

people who owned high ground which took quite a long time .

Mr. Chairman , the technical equipment referred to here are Radio phones .

As early as June 1981 , the

Department was making investigation for suitable site for its Radio Station .

Messrs Radio Centres , Tzaneen

had been requested to look for a duitable place within Gazankulu for the establishment of a Radio Station .

- 16 -

The funds budgeted for the radio phones were also not sufficient .

The Department had to

arrange for the provision of additional funds . This was another handicap encountered .

On September 17 ,

1981

six more applications were

made to six institutions or firms to survey suitable site in Gazankulu .

requesting them

for a Radio station

The instances concerned were :

General Electric in Klerksdorp , University of Witwatersrand in Johannesburg ,

Phillips Telecommunications

in Wadeville , Technoloc in Pietersburg ,

Siemens in

Pretoria and the University of Natal .

Fourteen days later , institution .

reminders were sent to each

Only two institutions ,

namely

the

University of Witwatersrand and Technoloc responded favourably to our applications .

However , their

replies reached us on 12/10/1981

and 16/11/1981

respectively .

Meanwhile the Director of TelecommunicationCommercial in Pretoria was approached for the granting of the 4th channel

in Gazankulu .

The

relevant forms were completed and sent to the Director .

The application was not succeessful .

The Department received the negetive

reply on

17/2/1982 .

In October 1981 , Gazankulu was instructed to remove

its Radio repeater

stations at Maripiskop as its

frequencies interfered with other private users of communication systems that operated on the same frequency .

This was another handicap because

the Department started to negotiate with Department of Co - operation and Development

regarding this issue .

17 -

Gazankulu was again requested to

look for a

suitable site within its borders where a Radio station

could be established .

Centre Tzaneen ,

Messrs . Radio

on request by the S.A.

Post Office ,

eventually succeeded in discovering suitable sites namely beacon 29 at Acornhoek and beacon 37 ( Man'gombe ) at Giyani .

However it was later

discovered that beacon 29 was falling under Lebowa . A new site had to be look for .

Eventually a site

was found at Bushbuckridge .

The Department applied for the licences for the Radio channels for the Department of Works , Agriculture ,

Police and Health .

The licences were

obtained on 29/1/1982 .

Many other problems were encountered and as a result the technical equipment could not be purchased until the funds had to be suspended during the 1981/82 suspensions .

Due to the information given above ,

Mr.

chairman ,

the Department could not finalise the arrangements .

( Charman ) :

Mr.

du Plessis ,

considering the fact that the excess

on the vote is mainly due to the suspension of funds in respect of projects which could not be completed during the year ,

could you please

inform the Committee : -

(a)

of the projects which did not get off the ground and

(b )

which projects are considered as perennial

programmes .

(Mr. du Plessis ) :

Mr. Chairman ,

among the projects which could not be

completed during the financial year under review ,

- 18 -

the following are in fact those projects which could not get off the ground : -

Teachers Training College Youth Action Elim Theatre Block Planning for Dwarsloop

Mr. Chairman , the following projects can be considered as perennial prograammes : -

Lulekani Township ( Houses )

Giyani

Malamulele Road

Pipeline D and Reservoir Government Buildings pbase 1

Mutlumuvi bridge Mbhokota -Riverplaaats road Levubu pump station Ritavi water purification works Thulamahashe water purification

Ritavi sewarage works 22 / 11KV substation Thulama hashe

Agincourt Health Centre Magistrate offices at Mhala Ritavi testing ground and

Mulototsi bridge .

(Mr. Nkanyani ) :

Mr. du Plessis ,

in connnection with the projects

which could not be initiated during the year , could you please give the main reasons for that and furnish more information about the provision

in

previous years if any .

( Mr.

du Plessis ) :

As I said the Teachers Training College did not get off the ground at this stage but the planning for the college

is completed ,

but the actual

building because of the lack of fund did not take off the ground .

19 -

In connection with the Youth Action ,

up to this

stage I had not received any instructions from the Department of the Chief Minister Affairs ,

and Economic

as to what to do with the funds available .

May be the represantative of the said Department may help with further details .

The next project

is the theatre block at Elim Hospital.

At that stage

we were still busy with the planning of the said hospital .

In connection with Dwarsloop ,

the

township was also still in the planning stage , mostly the supply of water and sewarage works .

( Mr. Nkanyani ) :

Furthermore Mr.

du Plessis ,

could you also give an

indication of the progress made in favour of the perenial programmes .

( Mr.

du Plessis ) :

All projects I mentioned are completed except the Mbhokota- Riverplaats

road which is still under

construction and also the 22 / 11KV substation at Thulamahashe .

(Mr. Khosa ) :

•

Mr. Chairman ,

I want to know if the money suspended

for the Youth Action is still suspended .

(Mr. du Plessis ) :

Yes Mr.

(Mr. Khosa ) :

Mr. Chairman ,

Chairman ,

the funds are still suspended .

since the said funds were suspended

for three or two years back , why was the funds not used to cover other expenses .

( Mr. Marais ) :

Mr. Chairman ,

since the funds are earmarked for

specific purpose ,

they can not be used to defray

other expenditure .

(Mr. Khosa ) :

Is this money not coming from the

( Mr. Marais ) :

No Mr. Chairman ,

loan funds .

the said funds are provided by the

Central Government .

- 20 -

(Chairman ) :

Mr. Vukela ,

from the Report it appears that the

excess on the Vote is due to increased costs on several commodities .

Was it not possible to make

adequate provision in the additional estimates ,

are commitment

and

registers in respect of purchases

not kept in such a way that detect an unexpected

it is possible to

rise in costs ,

such as the

price escalation of school furniture at the time of applying for additional funds .

( Mr.

Vukela ) :

Mr.

Chairman ,

when I applied for additional funds

of R5 000 000 in respect of salaries for teachers , Treasury responded inter - alia as follows : -

Regarding the salary increament during 1/4/1981 the amount available from the Central Government were to the tune of R5,8 million

rand ,

and the indication

was that no additional funds could be made available because of the fact that the Gazankulu Treasury was not in a position to make additional funds available .

In other words this implied that I could not have been granted additional funds for other purposes than salaries.

The Commitment registers are kept

and it is possible to detect an unexpected rise in cost from these registers , stated above ,

but owing to the reasons

there was no point in trying to pursue

the matter any further with the Treasury .

(Chairman ) :

Mr.

Kruger ,

could you please furnish the Committee

with further information

in regard to the excess of

R625 119,74 with particular reference to the suspension of funds for projects which could not be completed during the year and whether commitment registers

in respect of purchases are kept and also

whether the expenditure in connection with the increases in the price of fuel ,

lubricants and higher

purchase prices of major equipment could not have

- 21 ·

been foreseen at the time of applying for additional funds .

( Mr.

Kruger ) :

The amounts suspended are due to projects which were contracted out and the execution of the work could not take place

in the current financial year ,

the Tenders were accepted and the Department was committed to pay the outstanding amounts .

If the

budgeted funds were not suspended ,

the funds

would have been paid into revenue ,

which will

resulted in an overspending the following financial year .

The following projects were

involved : -

(1)

Water supply scheme - Dumphries

(2)

Micro irrigation Ritavi and Mhala ( Citrus )

(3 )

Consultant Engineers for Hlaneki

R40 000 R130 000

51 000

planning (4)

Milk scheme - Giyani

R118 300

( 5)

Cholera funds

R397 000

The phases budgeted for were completed during the financial year .

The overspending on fuel , could be foreseen .

lubricants and maintenance

Although the Department budgeted

for an increase in these amounts ,

and due to the

limited funds to our disposal the additional funds Running projects could not be stopped and the increase in maintenance of major equipment was tremendous .

Commitment

registers were kept and the

accounting section brought the overspending regularly under my attention . possible .

Savings were introduced where

- 22 -

( Chairman ) :

Mr. Sithole from the Report

it appears that the

Vote was exceeded by R1 262 777,92 .

Bearing in

mind that the excess is more than 12% of the appropriated amount which appears to be on the excessive side , was it not possible to make adequats provision in the additional estimates .

( Mr.

Sithole ) :

Mr. Chairman , the costs ,

adequate provision for increases in

such as transport ,

medicine ,

etc ,

has

been made but at the time when my Department submitted

its budget ,

certain cuts were made due to

lack of funds and as such my Department did not receive what we had budgeted for .

The excess is

also due mainly to the take - over of Douglas Smit Hospital in July 1981

for which no provision was made

coupled with the purchases of large stock of medicines due to the outbreak of Cholera .

My

Department tries by all means to stay within the limit of the Vote ,

but the increase in the number of

patients at hospitals also affect the Vote adversely .

( Mr.

Khosa ) :

Mr. Sithole from page 32 of the Report

it

is learned

that according to the appropriation account the excesses appears

to be on programmes 2 and 3.

as far as programme 2 is concerned ,

Now

could you please

give us some more details about the increase in tariffs for motor transport expenditure in connection with subsistence allowances and the higher costs of malaria control chemicals and equipment .

(Mr. Sithole ) :

Mr. chairman , the primary reason of overspending on subsistance and transport appears to be an old fashion problem in this department .

As a secondary

factor it can be mentioned that the outbreak of cholera during the said financial year necessitated an increase in transport use and also in the number of people who were claiming subsistance allowances .

- 23-

another contributory factor was the take - over of Douglas Smith Hospital for which no provision was made in our budget .

The said factors

contributed

in

the over spending of transport and subsistance allowances .

(Mr. Khosa ) :

Mr. Sithole are your commitment

registers kept

in

such a way that it is possible to detect an unexpected rise in costs .

( Mr.

Sithole ) :

Mr.

chairman ,

my commitment registers are kept in

such a way that

it is possible to detect an

unexpected rise

in costs ,

but due to unexpected rise

in tariffs the expenditure on subsistance allowance and higher cost on malaria control chemicals and equipments as I have indicated before could not be checked .

( Chairman ) :

Gentlemen and a lady ,

it appears that the Auditor-

General report on unauthorised expenditure year after year .

In most of the cases it appears to be the same

departments over and over again ,

for example :

1979/80

1978/79

1981/82

Works

R795 724-63

R1 575 878-46

R109 623-06

Education

R977 035-55

R

268 791-55

R258 554-28

Agriculture

R 20 352-66

33 419-32

795 303-99

Gentlemen and a lady ,

something must be done to curb

expenditure so that we stay within the Appropriation Act .

limit of the

Could the Auditors perhaps

comment on this matter .

( Rev.Kubay ) :

Mr.

chairman just

before the Auditors comment ,

it is

most striking to note that the Department of Agriculture and Forestry has got a high increase in unauthorised expenditure every year .

By this I

do not mean that the other departments does not show an increase ,

but with the Department of

Agriculture

- 24 -

it went very high .

(Mr. Bakkes ) :

Mr. Chairman ,

the Exchequer and Audit Act ,

(Act 66 of 1975 )

1975

of the Republic is in terms of

section 35 of the Black States Constitution Act , 1971 (Act 21

of 1971 )

applicable on the acccounts

of the Gazankulu Government .

Section 8 ( 1 ) of the Exchequer and Audit Act ,

1975 ,

clearly states that any moneys appropriated by the Legislative Assembly for a Vote ,

shall be construed

as merely indicating the maximum amount which may be utilized for the service or purpose concerned .

It

is therefore a foregone conclusion that the construed maximum amount may not be exceeded .

In section 33 ( 1 )

(b)

( ii )

it further determines that

expenditure is unauthorized

if the total amount

appropriated for the vote concerned is exceeded , and the Act further provides

that such expenditure

shall not form a charge against the Gazankulu Revenue Fund ,

until such expenditure has been

validated by law .

This further indicates that the Legislators do not want the maximum amount exceeded .

The principles behind these sections of the Act are quite clear

(a)

The Legislative Assembly has and wants to retain the power to appropriate moneys ,

and as

such jealeously guards its powers ; (b )

the Legislative Assembly wants the funds appropriated spent on these services voted by it , and not more than that provided ;

- 25 --

(c)

in paragraph 5 on page 3 of the Report the position of the Gazankulu Revenue From this ,

Fund is shown .

it can be seen that the R3 417 286,90

unauthorised expenditure

is taken into account ,

leaving a balance of R11 900 870,39 in the Revenue Fund , which is available for appropriation , after allowance has been made for the appropriation of the R3,4 million unauthorised expenditure .

It thus can be seen that to exceed one's vote must be considered as a serious issue .

Thank you

Mr. chairman ,

(Mr. Chairman ) :

The committee having heard the evidence

is of

the opinion that the exceeding of a vote cannot be considered too lightly and want to express its concern about it .

Accounting officers

must ensure that purposefull

steps are taken

to bring about savings so that they can stay within the limit of the Appropriation Act . Therefore accounting officers must also be prepared to furnish particulars of steps to accomplish such savings if the may deem it necessary

taken

committee

- 26 -

STATE DEBT : PARAGRAPH 6 ( PAGE 3 )

(Mr. Chairman ) :

From paragraph 6 of the Report it appears that for the year under review the State Debt increased by R5 000 000 representing an increase in long term debt . Could the Treasury perhaps furnish more details .

(Mr. Nkuna ) :

Thank you Mr.

Chairman ,

the Gazankulu Cabinet

approved the raising of a loan of R5 000 000 in terms of the Gazankulu General Loans Act ,

1973 in

order to finance the folowing capital projects which could not be financed from available funds during the financial year : -

R1 810 000

Nkowankowa Sewerage Works Nkowankowa Water Purification Works

472 000

Levubu Pump Station

461 000

Water Supply- Ntsnwisi Dam

1 257 000

Water Supply- Thulamahashe

700 000

Dairy Scheme - Giyani

300 000

R5 000 000

The conditions attached to this long term debt are as follows : -

Interest rate : Term :

13,75 per cent per annum

20 years

I can also mention Mr.

chairman ,

that the

interest

rate is regarded as fair and reasonable .

( Rev. Kubay) :

Mr. Marais, are these capital projects under the control of your Department .

( Mr. Marais ) :

Mr. Chairman , the project mentioned by Mr. are in fact under the

Nkuna

ontrol of the Department of

Works and the Department of Agriculture and Forestry .

- 27 .-

The Department of Finance is only responsible to make funds available for interest and capital redemption

(Rev. Kubay ) :

Mr. du Plessis could you please give us some more information regarding the completion of these projects .

(Mr. du Plessis ) :

Nkowankowa sewerage works is completed ,

Nkowankowa

water purification Works will be completed at the end of April 1983 ,

Levubu Pump Station is completed ,

Water Supply-Ntsanwisi Dam is completed , Water Supply- Thulamahashe is completed , Dairy Scheme - Giyani : This project does not fall under my Department , I think the Department of Agriculture and Foresty can give more details .

(Rev. Kubay) :

Is the loan Mr. du Plessis ,

sufficient to complete

the projects .

( Mr. du Plessis ) :

Mr. chairman , I think at this stage the loan is sufficient .

(Mr. Nkanyane ) :

Mr. Marais , why the loan should be repaid in 20 years , is the period not too long .

(Mr. Marais ) :

Mr. chairman , investors

I think this is due to the fact that the try to establish an investment for a

longer period .

We are negotiating this loans

through the assistance of the Merchant Bank .

They

usually advise us about the period of the loan . mention Mr.

I can

chairman that in the past financial year ,

that is 1982/83 we have negotiated a loans of R8,25 million . parts .

This loan has been divided into two

One part is for the period of ten years and

the other part is for the period of twenty years . problem is also Mr.

The

chairman , the period of a loan

determines the amount which should be deposited into the redemption fund per financial year .

- 28 -

The shorter the period ,

the higher the amount which

should be deposited into the redemption fund .

The

General Loans Amendment Act states that the amount to be deposited in the

redemption fund is equals to

the amount of the loan divided by the number of years . In case of the R5 000 000 the amount to be paid into the redemption fund is R250 000 but if the period was shorter ,

say ten years ,

the amount should

have been R500 000 per financial year .

(Mr. Khosa ) :

Mr. Marais ,

is the interest rate remaining the same

if the period is shorter .

(Mr. Marais ) :

Mr. chairman , the interest rates do differ Mr. chairman .

For an example ,

in the case of the

R8,25 million loan which was divided into two parts , the part with a period of ten years has the interest rate of 12, 75% and the twenty years period part 13%.

- 29 -

CLASSIFICATION AND COMPARISON OF REVENUE :

(Chairman ) :

PARAGRAPH 13 ( 1 ) ,

From paragraph 13 ( 2 )

( PAGE 5 )

of the Report it appears that

a large amount of Revenue was outstanding as at 31 March 1982.

Mr. Mativandlela ,

could you please

give more details of the outstanding amount of R16 831-00 .

(Mr.

Mativandlela ) :

Mr. chairman , you will realise that my Department took over the administration of the Malamulele , Nkowankowa and Thulama hashe towns as from 1 April 1981 , in addition to the Giyani town which was taken- over in 1979 .

When these take - overs were made from the magistrates's offices ,

already there were large sums of outstanding

revenue .

Besides , when the towns were handed over to my

Department there were not enough staff to run the instances .

In most cases ,

the administrative

branch of the town offices consisted of the Town manager and his cashier so that it was not practically possible for them to send out notices to defaulters as well as making any folow ups .

This resulted in the

outstanding amount of R16 831-00 .

The outstanding amount referred to above has been collected in the 1982/83 financial year .

(Chairman ) :

Mr. du Plessis ,

according to the Report ,

revenue

outstanding in respect of electricity fees could not be furnished by your Department at the time of writing this report .

It will be appreciated if you

could now submit to the Committee particulars of all outstanding electricity fees as at 31 March 1982 and also give an

indication of the amounts outstanding

for six months or longer .

- 30

(Mr. du Plessis ) :

Mr. Chairman , the outstanding electricity fees at the 31.03.1982 was R82 880,42 .

as

The amount of

R73 995,84 was outstanding for the period of six months and longer as at 31

March 1982 ,

of this amount

only R25 280-02 is still outstanding at the present moment .

This amount

is owed by three firms .

The

payment of electricity accounts in the Ritavi and Mhala districts were done on the agency basis and this Department was not advised respect of the three firms .

of the payments in

This Department

is still

trying its best to have this amount paid or receipts produced to prove that they have paid ,

since they

claim that they have long paid and they are not

(Mr.

Khosa ) :

Mr. du Plessis ,

in arrear .

bearing in mind the fact that nearly

the whole amount was outstanding for over six months , could you please give the main reasons for these outstanding amounts .

For an example ,

is it not cases

where meter readings were not taken periodically and accounts not issued accordingly .

(Mr. du Plessis ) :

Mr. Chairman ,

the main

reason for these

amounts to be

outstanding for a longer period is as I have indicated , that the electricity

payments by the said three firms

were done on an agency basis by the different magistrate offices .

In connection with the question

concerning meter readings ,

I want to point out that the

readings were taken and accounts sent

regularly .

Five firms were involved in this case and two of them since paid .

Mr. Khosa ) :

Mr. du Plessis , concerned ,

as far as electricity fees are

one must take

into acccount that a

certain service was rendered by the Government and that the rendering of such services must not fall in arrear .

Mr. du Plessis ,

do instructions exist for

strict recovery of electricity fees .

has

- 31 -

( Mr. du Plessis ) :

Mr. chairman ,

I want to point out that as from

April this year the services of meter reading and issuing of accounts has been transfered from the Department of Works to the Department of Interior . Fees due will also be paid at the Department of the Interior .

Whereas in the past the Department of

Works read the meters and issued the accounts whilest the payment was done at the Department of Finance . In this case I was not always aware which accounts had been settled and outstanding , could not be made .

so proper follow up I hope

With the new arrangement

proper control will be executed .

(Chairman ) :

Mr. Marais ,

it is observed that the nett excess on

ordinary revenue estimates .

represents 49 persent of total

Could you kindly furnish reasons for this

large veriation .

( Mr. Marais ) :

Mr. Chairman ,

the

increase of 49 per cent

in ordinary

revenue is mainly attributed to general tax and interest .

The amount of R5 500 000 in respect of general tax as estimated was determined in conjunction with the Department of Co - operation and Development . actual collections by that Department ,

The

however ,

increased during the course of the financial year .

The increase in interest

is mainly due to planned

investment of available funds by the Treasury .

The

availability of funds was influenced by increased ordinary revenue and an amount of R10 709 100 suspended during the 1980/81

financial year which could

be invested until March 1982 .

Mr.

Chairman ,

interest rates were also more

favourable than originally estimated .

- 32 ·

(Chairman ) :

Mr. Kruger ,

could you also furnish details about

the outstanding amount of R1

( Mr.

Kruger ) :

943 .

Mr. chairman , the Department sold 270 pockets of fertilizers to Mpumulana Farmers cooperation at Ritavi .

The amount involved

is R1

943,00 .

The

agreement with the Cooperation is that they will effect payment after the fertilizers has been sold to the farmers .

(Chairman ) :

Mr. Sithole ,

The amount has since been paid .

could you please explain to the

Committee the sources of revenue and what are the main reasons for the outstanding amount of R62 077 . Also advise the total amount outstanding for six months or longer .

(Mr. Sithole ) :

Mr. chairman , the hospital

health centres and

clinics are the main sources of revenue .

The

amount of R62 077 is made up mainly of W.C.A. in the hospitals .

The main

cases

reason for the amount

being still outstanding can be attributed to the following . : -

The employers sometimes delay in submitting duly completed medical reports from the hospital to the Workmen's Compensation Commissioner for payment .

It also happens that some workmen who receive treatment at the hospital are not their employers

registered by

and when the duly completed medical

reports are sent to the

employers ,

they are never

submitted to the Workmen's Compensation Commissioner

for payment .

A follow- up is being done to recover the outstanding revenue .

The total amount outstanding for six months

or longer is R57 343-10 .

- 33 -

(Mr. Mnisi ) :

Mr. Sithole ,

it seems the amount outstanding for the

period of six months and longer forms the greater part of the amount outstanding .

Could you please give an

indication of the oldest cases .

( Mr. Sithole ) :

Some of these cases appear to be outstanding for a period of more than three years .

The oldest case

involves R57 343-10 .

( Mr. Mnisi ) :

Mr. Sithole ,

do proper directions exist for the

recovery of outstanding revenue ,

and if so ,

could you

please give some examples .

( Mr. Sithole ) :

Mr.

chairman ,

no proper directions have been laid

down for the recovery of the outstanding amount . The Department has since then issued circulars to hospitals and clinics requesting them to make follow- up of amounts outstanding .

If this fails ,

the

Treasury will have to be approached to have this amount written

(Mr. Khosa ) :

Mr.

off .

chairman ,

I feel most of the outstanding amount

caused by the W.C.A.

cases .

Is it not possible for the

hospital to find out if the patient is properly . registered before he is discharged .

( Mr. Muhlarhi ) :

Mr.

chairman ,

him go .

to keep him is too coastly than to let

The problem lies in the fact that when

the patient is admitted , aparticular person ,

and when the forms are completed

and sent to his employer , them to the W.C.A. register him . At

he claims to be working for

the employer Cannot send

since he knows that he did not that time the damage has already

been done .

(Mr. Marais ) :

To add to that Mr.

chairman ,

I do not think it is the

policy of that department to turn back patients .

- 34 --

(Mr.

Sithole ) :

Mr. Chairman ,

may I just explain this misunderstanding ,

the main problem is that the W.C.A does not know the Workman becuase the employer did not

register him .

So after the forms had been sent to the claimed employer who on the other had destroyed them , seems to be no way of persuing the case , in some instances

there

because

even the addresses of both

the

patient and the employer are false .

( Rev. Kubay ) :

I want to make a follow up Mr chairman .

I am actually

concerned about those amounts which have been outstanding for three years or more .

I am of the

opinion that proper follow up should be made in the cases which you can ,

but those case which you cannot

make any follow- up because of some difficulties then you can decide how to go about .

(Mr. Muhlarhi ) :

Mr.

chairman I am afraid there is a misunderstanding

here .

We have discussed the problem of the employer

and workmen compensation .

I am of the opinion that

each and every one here is aware of where the problem lies .

What I want to suggest is that the Department

of Health and Welfare should try to approach the Treasury to write - off those amount which are long outstanding .

( Mr. Chairman ) :

Mr. Marais the Report reflects an outstanding amount of R1

107 225.

Could you please furnish more details ,

also advise the total amount outstanding for six months or longer .

(Mr. Marais ) :

Mr.

chairman ,

the outstanding amount of R1

consists mainly of special tax Gazankulu special tax ,

107 225

in which is included

site rental ,

dipping and

grazing fees and arable allortments .

This government did not have proper computer equipment in the past for the proper control of special tax .

and

- 35 -

The government however

has since acquired a bigger

computer and a program system was then embarked on The

to put all taxpayers on the computer . Department succeeded in issuing essessments during March 1981. situation Mr.

Chairman ,

the first To further improve the

I am glad to

report that the

Department has procured the services of a private firm of computer programming expertise to assist with the rewritting of computer programmes .

As a result , a position

magistrates will in future be placed in

in which all tax defaulters are easily

identified for further action .

The Department is therefore satisfied that outstanding revenue will be

reduced to a minimum level as soon as

the programme system is rewritten and operative .

(Mr. Nkanyani ) :

Mr. Marais when do you expect the programme to be fully operative .

( Mr. Marais ) :

Mr. chairman , we are at the present moment working on this ,

at the present moment we have about forty

tax- payers

on the system .

We hope to

increase this

number of tax - payers quite substantially .

We are

busy updating the master file of the computer with the receipts already issued .

We hope

we will reach the

stage were we will be able to issue this assessments to the magistrate offices . That is all I can say about this system at the present moment .

( Mr. Nkanyani ) :

Mr. Marais ,

does directions exist for the proper

control over outstanding revenue and if so please give some examples .

(Mr. Marais ) :

Mr.

chairman ,

the Department of Finance is at the moment

considereing the issue of a circular to control the outstanding revenue .

regulate and

In this circular it

will inter alia be stated that six monthly returns of

- 36 .-

such revenue must be submitted by all Receivers of Revenue , and these include Magistrates ,

Superintendents

of Hospitals and Schools , Township Manager ,

etc.

The purpose would be to have six monthly returns submitted as at 30 September and 31 March of each financial year and to see to it that those institutions that have been mentioned take possitive steps to collect these revenues .

As far as the computerized Tax System is concerned it can be mentioned that

lists of defaulters will be

issued to each Magisterial district and that messengers of Court will assist in collecting these outstanding amounts .

During the course of the financial year 1982/83 the Department of Finance had correspondence with the magistrates concerning outstanding amounts on assesments issued 1969.

tax

in terms of the Black Taxation Act ,

In various instances magistrates have issued

summons to these defaulters and I believe that because of this action we have been able to increase our revenue from this source .

The Revenue Inspctors attached to the Inland Revenue Section of the Department of Finance conducts inspections in all offices of the Government and their findings ,

Service

which also include amounts and

particualrs of outstanding revenue ,

are being reported

in writing to the various Departments .

Follow- up

inspcetions are being conducted to correlate progress made in this matter .

Finally , Mr.

chairman ,

I must mention that Treasury has

on a number of occasions

refused to write - off

outstanidng revenues and has

insisted that steps be

- 37 --

taken to collect these amounts .

- 38 -

INVESTMENTS :

(Mr. Chairman ) :

Mr. Marais ,

PARAGRAPH 13 ,

PAGE 5

I notice that surplus funds in the

Exchequer account amounting to R15 098 125 at 31 March 1982 were temporarily invested with a banking

institution

Could you please advise the

committee on the following : -

( a)

what are the interest rates ,

(b )

what procedure

and

is followed in determining with

which bank these investments should be made .

( Mr. Marais ) :

Mr.

chairman ,

of the available amount of R15 098 125

an amount of R10 709 100 was invested at a fixed interest rate of 17,5 per cent as a fixed

investment .

The balance was invested on call at non - constant interest rates varying between 16 and 12,5 per cent It is important

per annum .

Mr.

chairman to

maintain a reasonable balance on call to meet unforseen circumstances .

Mr.

chairman ,

the Treasury has power in terms of

section 10 ( a ) of the Exchequer and Audit Act , 1975 (Act No.

66 of 1975 )

to utilise available funds

in the Exchequer account for temporary investment .

The official

Government

Banker ,

Barclays National Bank ,

Giyani is approached for advice concerning a banking institution in the money market offering the highest rates of interest .

Investments are thus

made with such banking institution through the official Government

Banker in an effort of maximising

returns in investments •

As these funds are temporarily invested , thereof is of cardinal importance . Mr.

chairman ,

financial

the

the mobility

For this reason ,

investments are made with any

institution through our official Banker •

i

- 39 --

APPROPRIATION ACCOUNTS :

(Chairman ) :

PARAGRAPH 14 ( PAGE 11-31 )

Mr. Mativandlela , the statement on page 13 of the Report reflects an amount of R7 374 which was outstanding in connection with rentals and services for six months and longer .

Are effective

steps taken to ensure that proper control is exercised over outstanding amounts and can you give an indication to the Committee of what

steps are

taken to recover outstanding amounts .

(Mr. Mativandlela ) :

Yes , Mr. Chairman ,

effective steps are taken to

ensure proper control over outstanding amounts . When a tenant owes rent and other charges , are sent to him to settle his account . do respond very quickly .

reminders

Many people

If a person ignores the

reminders , the house may be locked , or water closed from his house .

electricity cut

Otherwise he is

served with summons to appear before the court of law . However cases which are

referred to the court of law

are very rare .

My Department has now appointed units to see to it that rentals ,

service charges and electricity are paid

timeously .

They do so by regularly issuing

statements of accounts and making follows ups . Motor cycles will be purchased for use by these people .

Provision has been made for the purchase of

these vehicles before the end of May 1983.

The

amounts which had been outstanding for a period of over six months have been recovered during the 1982/83 Financial year .

( Rev. Kubay) :

Mr. Mativandlela ,

how many days grace do you give

people to pay in their accounts in connection with rentals and service charges .

- 40 --

( Mr. Mativandlela ) :

Mr. Chairman ,

the law for rental and services is

that the account should be paid within seven days after the end of the month .

For electricity , we

must ensure first that the man gets his account . When he has got his account ,

which is usually after

a month , we do indicate in our following month's statement his arrears and the current owed amount , if he does not pay electricity is cut .

and

In other

words for electricity the period of grace is sixty days .

( Rev.

Kubay ) :

Mr. Mativandlela , seven days grace

are you very strict with the in connection with service and

rental payment .

(Mr. Mativandlela ) :

Mr. Chairman ,

one can not be very strict because

people do earn their wages differently . their pay weekly ,

some fort nightly ,

some monthly

and some on the fifteenth of the month . to try to accomodate these people .

Some receive

So we have

So what we look

at is whether the man keeps making his regular payments .

If he do pays regularly we are satisfied ,

is when he start staying two or three months without paying when we do enforce a law .

(Chairman ) :

Another question Mr. Appropriation Account

Mativandlela .

From the

it Appears that a total

amount of R509 900 was suspended by the Treasury . Could you please furnish more details .

(Mr. Mativandlela ) :

Mr. Chairman ,

the amount of R509 900 was suspended

for the following undertakings which could not be completed before 31 March 1982 :

The amount of R150 000 was suspended for the erection of 27 rental houses for Departmental use . These houses are now bringing in form of rent and service charges .

revenue

in the

The houses were

distributed to the Departments in the four townships .

- 41 -

The amount of R65 000 was suspended for purchasing Departmental vehicles which are indispensable for the functioning of the Department .

These vehicles

could not be provided by the Department of Works because the funds had been cut by the Budgeting Committee .

The amount of R5 000 was suspended for the purchase of two Rotary slashers for the Giyani and Nkowankowa Townships .

The amount of R135 000 was suspended for the purchas of Radios for the clinics and

ribal authorities .

The radios could not be purchased during the 1981/82 Financial year as arrangements were being made with the office of the Postmaster - General for the granting of an additional channel for use by the said instances .

The amount of R42 000 was suspended for the installation of the P.A.B.X telephone systems at Nkhensani , Letaba and Tintswalo Hospitals . Negotiations for the installation of the P.A.B.X telephone systems could not be finalised during 1981/82 financial year .

The amount of R112 900 was suspended for the improvement of the Nkowankowa and Giyani stadiums ,

the

construction of the pavilion for Malamulele stadium , the providing of tennis courts for Thulamahashe , the providing of soccer , at Hlanganani ,

atheletics and netball fields

and the extension of the Giyani

Clubhouse .

Treasury Approval for the utilisation of the amount of R509 900 for the purposes summarised above was obtained ,

namely F9/ 7/ 5 dated 19/03/1982 .

-· 42 -

When the amount mentioned above was suspended in March 1982 , the January 1982 ledger and the draft Additional Estimates showed indications that there would be a saving of over R600 000 in the vote and so the Department suspended the amount referred to in your question Mr.

( Mr.

Khosa ) :

Mr. Chairman ,

Chairman .

I would like to know whether the

projects for which money has been suspended will be started with this year .

(Mr. Mativandlela ) :

Mr. Chairman ,

I have

indicated that the sum of

R150 000 was suspended for the erection of houses . These houses are now erected and are complete . second was R65 000 for purchasing vehicles , vehicles have been bought .

these

The R5 000 was for the

purchase of slashers for grass , and are in use .

The

these were bought

The amount of R135 000 was

suspended for the purpose of purchasing radios for clinics and tribal

offices , this has also been done .

The amount of R42 000 was suspended for the installation of the P.A.B.X telephone systems at Nkhensani ,

Letaba and Tintswalo hospitals , this

has been done .

The amount of R112 900 was suspended

for the improvement of Nkowankowa and Giyani stadiums the construction of a pavillion at Malamulele stadium , this amount here , have been done .

only part of the work

The idea was that we usually get

a certain grant from the Central Goverment for sports , and we were of the opinion that ,

that grant will

supplement this amount so as to enable us to continue with the work . grant late last year .

We received part of the We will continue with the

work of completing the said stadium this year . That was the position Mr. Chairman .

(Chairman ) :

Mr. du Plessis ,

it

is noticed that the distance

covered by official vehicles amounted to 8 629 330 kilometers .

- 43 -

Do your Department have strict control over total kilometers covered by government vehicles .

( Mr.

du Plessis ) :

Mr. Chairman ,

my Department is only responsible

for the control over the kilometers covered internally and not for the whole government

Service .

Each Department is responsible and

answerable for the total kilometers. it has travelled . Every official in my Department is allocated a certain number of kilometers financial year ,

to cover during the

and in this way the control is

excercised .

( Mr.

Mnisi ) :

Seeing that the kilomet ers travelled by government vehicles are controlled

by various departments ,

which

to my opinion makes the over all control very difficult .

Is it not possible Mr.

du

Plessis ,

that

your Department should take control of all the kilometers covered by the vehicles in all the departments .

(Mr. du Plessis ) :

No Mr. Chairman ,

it

is not possible because the

Department of Works actually hire the vehicles to various departments .

Each department pay back inro

X

revenue the amount . for the kolometers covered from its own budget .

Due to this reason my Department

cannot have control over kilometers for all the various departments .

(Mr. Vukela ) :

To add on to what has been said Mr.

chairman ,

basically each and very department is responsible for allocationg a number of kilometers to its own officials .

For an example we have a number of

inspectors in the Department of Education , inspectors work according to a certain kilometers per month .

and these

number of

There is a difference in the

number of kilometers to be travelled between the circuit inspector and inspectors of schools .

- 44 -

We have also officials attached to head office , they submit iteneraries wherever they want to go and these had to be approved by the Secretary of the Department .

I feel if all this work had to be

transfered to the Department of Works ,

it will be

a cumbersome and strainous job .

(Mr.

Khosa ) :

It appears that the 8 million kilometers

is only

for the Department of Works .

( Mr. du Plessis ) :

No Mr.

Chairman , the 8 million kilometers

is for

the whole Government Service .

( Mr.

Khosa ) :

Mr. chairman ,

which means that in future this

Committee shall get the

report of kilometers done

by various departments from Accounting officers differently .

( Mr.

du Plessis ) :

Mr.

chairman ,

the Auditor - General may publish the

kilometers done by various department if he deems it necessary .

( Rev.

Kubay ) :

Mr.

chairman ,

I noticed that in addition to the

8,6 million kilometers ,

there is yet other

kilometers of 1,2 million by officers who used subsidised vehicles .

Mr. du Plessis ,

I was just

wondering what criteria is being used for granting an officer a subsidised car .

And how do you

determine that the vehicles were used for official purposes .

(Mr. du Plessis ) :

Mr. Chairman , question ,

in answering the first part of the

I would like to point out that any officer

requiring a subsidised vehicle has to submit an application to his Accounting Officer .

Officer .

The Accounting

45

then submit the application to the committee which then decide if the said officer do qualify .

The

approval of such applications depend on the kilometers which the officer had to cover in a month and also the availability of funds .

In connection with the second part of the question , I wish to point out that the subsidised vehicles are controlled in the same manner as the other

government vehicles .

Officers do submit their

iteneraries and all kilometers used are recorded in their log books .

The kilometers which were not

approved on iteneraries are regarded as private .

( Rev.

Kubay) :

Mr.

Chairman ,

I would like to find out from the

other Accounting officers how they do control vehicles under their control .

( Mr. Mativandlela ) :

Mr.

chairman ,

vehicles under my control

are controlled in the same manner as Mr. du Plessis

has just indicated .

When an officer do wish to

go out on official duty , itenerary .

he has to submit an

All the kilometers which were not

approved are regarded as private and he should pay for them .

We have also inspectors on the road

who see to it that vehicles are always on their

official route .

Speedo meters are sealed so as to

prevent people to temper with the readings .

( Mr. du Plessis ) :

To add on what has been said Mr.

chairman ,

of every month when the officer do submit log - sheets ,

at the end his

the kilometers on the log - sheets are

compared with his approved iteneraries .

(Mr. Vukela ) :

Basically the control measures are the same for all the departments .

One can only pick up trouble

when officers do submit iteneraries for the sake of going out .

- 46 -

(Mr. Chairman ) :

Another question on this subject Mr. du Plessis . According to the Report the average cost per kilometers is calculated at 28,1

cents .

Could

you please give an indication to the Committee how the tariff of 28,1

cents is made up and what cost

factors are taken into consideration .

( Mr.

du Plessis ) :

Mr. Chairman ,

the tariff of 28,1

cents was sum of money

arrived at by dividingthe total spent by the total kilometers

(Mr. Nkanyane ) :

Mr. chairman ,

travelled .

Could you please simplify, what does you

mean by money spent dividing by total kilometers travelled .

(Mr. du Plessis ) :

Mr.

chairman ,

the total sum of money spent is the

whole money spent by the Government on motor transport , that is the running cost of the vehicles divide by the amount of the kilometers travelled .

(Mr. Khosa ) :

Mr.

chairman ,

do these tariff apply to all types

of vehicles .

(Mr. du Plessis ) :

As I have mentioned Mr.

chairman ,

this

is an

average amount .

(Mr. Chairman ) :

Mr. du Plessis ,

referring to motor accidents

paragraph 19 ( 1 ) ( c ) of the Report , there was an increase 164 in 1980/81 to

in motor

195 in

accidents from

1981/82 .

reported to your Department ,

it appears that

Are all accidents

properly examined and

is responsibility determined in every case .

( Mr. du Plessis ) :

Yes Mr. Chairman , Department when scrutinized ,

all accidents are reported to my

they are thoroughly checked and

but the determination of responsibility

is the duty of every Department , to say whether

- 47 ·-

its officer must pay or not .

And my Department

is responsible for the determination of liability for its officials only .

Mr.

Chairman ,

the increase in the number of accidents

from 164 to 195 can be attributed to the fact that there was only 533 vehicle in 1980/81 715 in the 1981/82 financial year .

while we had

Total kilometers

travelled for 1980/81 were 7134047 while in

1981/82

were 8629330 .

Lastly the sum of R4109-12 was recovered from the responsible officers in

1981/82 financial year

as compared with R2657-57 recovered

in the 1980/81

financial year .

( Rev.

Kubay ) :

Mr.

du Plessis ,

you say that

in the 1980/81

financial

year you had 533 vehicles and in the past financial year you had 715 vehicles ,

it seems to me that you

are suggesting that the more vehicles you have the more accident you should have .

( Mr.

du Plessis ) :

Mr. Chairman ,

I think that

is correct .

Let us say

the rate of accidents is 10% of the total number of vehicles .

Ten per cent of 533 will be 53 vehicles

and ten per cent of 715 will

be 71

vehicles .

That

is the picture when we look at it from the avarage basis

( Rev. Kubay ) :

Mr.

chairman , the way in which Mr.

sound logically , but we should

not

du Plessis puts it

I know that accidents

happen

expect a high number of accidents

because people will go about breaking cars and say after all accidents are expected .

Mr. du Plessis could you please give an indication of the vehicles allocated to each department and the rate of accidents per department .

- 48 -

(Mr. du Plessis ) :

Mr. chairman ,

I have figures here for the 1982/83

financial year which were as follows :

Chief Minister and

Economic Affairs had

and 8 were involved

28 vehicles

in an accident .

Department of the Interior

was having 18

vehicles and 7 were involved

in an accident .

The Department of Works had 182 vehicles and 64 were involved

in an accident .

Department of Education had 78 vehicles 13 were involved

in an accident .

The Department of Agriculture and Forestry had 118 vehicles and 28 were involved in an accident . The Department of Justice had 19 vehicles ,

and

9 were involved in an accident . The Department of Health and Welfare had 156 , 44 were involved in an accident . The Department of Police had 72 vehicles 41

were

involved in an accident . The Department of Finance had

13 vehicles ,

11 were

involved in an accident

( Rev. Kubay) :

Mr.

chairman ,

Mr.

du Plessis has just given us a

good example of people who are careless . vehilces and eleven involved epartment of Finance ,

Thirteen

in an accident for the

I would not be suprised

Police could have all those cars

if

involved

in an accident because most of the time they are chasing after criminals and what have you .

But for

Finance this is a good sign of carelessness

Mr.

chairman .

A further question Mr.

du Pessis ,

taken into account when the a motor accident

( Mr.

du Plessis ) :

Mr. Chairman ,

what factors are

liability in respect of

is determined .

if a person did

not loose his cover

- 49 -

that is when he does possess a valid drivers licence , when he is not under the influence of liquor or drugs and has got an approved itenerary then he is covered and the the damage .

Government should pay for

But if he looses his cover then he

should pay for the damage .

( Rev.

Kubay ) :

How does it happen that an officer drives without an authority .

(Mr. du Plessis ) :

In answering I can just give an example ,

let say a

person was working at Mhala and comes back late on Friday after the offices have closed it may so happen that since he has the keys of the vehicle in his pocket he decide to drive around .

(Mr. Nkanyani ) :

How do you recognise that the driver was under the influence of liquor since some of the accidents do happen

(Mr.

du Plessis ) :

during week - ends .

Mr. Chairman ,

all accidents which happen must

be reported in time to the police .

If a person

fails to report the accident in time then he looses his cover .

(Mr.

Nkanyani ) :

I was only suspicious that some people could be involved in accidents and delay to report the case until he sorbers up .

( Mr. du Plessis ) :

If nothing can be proved against him Mr. then

( Mr. Mnisi ) :

the officer is covered .

Mr. du Plessis , what about recklessness , carry any

(Mr. du Plessis ) :

chairman ,

does it

weight .

Yes Mr. Chairman ,

it does carry a lot of weight .

If a driver is found guilty of reckless driving by the court of law then he must pay for the damage .

- 50 -·

( Mr. Mnisi ) :

Mr. du Plessis ,

it is stated that the responsibility

for the determination of the liability for accidents is that of each department .

Bearing in mind that the

provision for transport services is made under your vote .

Why is it not the duty of your department

to determine the liability for accidents damages in every case .

(Mr. du Plessis ) :

Mr. chairman ,

I have pointed before that each and

every department is responsible for the running of its own vehicles ,

Each department report to me in case

of accident and they indicate whether the officer concerned should pay or not .

( Rev.

Kubay ) :

Looking here at the Report , Mr.

chairman ,

with your permission

I notice that motor accidents which

happened when vehicles were in irregular use are only four .

It is very difficult Mr.

to accept this figure as correct .

chairman for me

When one sees the

way how this vehicles are driven it is unbelivable that for the whole year we have four accidents which happened when vehicles were in irregullar use .

(Mr. du Plessis ) :

Mr.

I question this figure .

chairman ,

this brings us back to the question

of a person not

loosing his cover .

If that is the case

we cannot do anything about the accident .

(Mr. Bakkes ) :

You see Mr.

chairman ,

what can happen of course

is

that a vehicle can be in irregular use without having an accident ,

that you can do nothing about it .

What we report here is only the cases where we notice that people have been using vehicle irregularly when

( Rev. Kubay ) :

Yes Mr.

an accident .

chairman ,

I am concerned about the accidents

themselves not about cars being in irregular use .

- 51 -

(Mr. Muhlarhi ) :

Mr.

chairman ,

how will you prove that the accident

was due to irregular use of vehicles if the officer did not

lose his cover .

It is only when he has

lost his cover that he may be charged for irregular use of the vehicles , of the approved

( Rev. Kubay ) :

Then ,

by this I mean when he is out

route .

how were these four accidents reported in this

Report proved .

( Mr.

Marais ) :

Mr. chairman , the departments when making their recommendations to the Department of Works in the case of an accident do indicate that a person should pay because the accident happened when the vehicle was in irregular use .

( Rev. Kubay ) :

Mr.

(Mr. Muhlarhi ) :

It is not the question of being clear but to

chairman , It seems my question

understand how things are done Mr.

( Rev.

Kubay ) :

is not clear .

chairman .

I was saying that I believe that there are many more accidents which do happen under irregular use . is no doubt about that Mr.

chairman ,

concerned about the small figure

There

that is why I am

shown in the Report .

In other words there are other accidents which happen in irregular use which are not ( Mr. du Plessis ) :

reported .

Mr. chairman , the main reason is that most of the accident cannot be proved that accident did happen during irregular use of the vehicle . Most of the accident forms are referred to

the Department of Justice for legal advice .

But not

all the forms can be referred to the Department of Justice because we will be overloading them with work . Only those which we are not sure of the steps to be taken are referred to Justice .

(Mr. Mnisi ) :

Mr.

chairman ,

it worries me a great deal to find out

that government cars are greatly involved

in accidents .

1

- 52 -

I feel if we compare the number of officers owning private cars and the number of government vehicles , we find out that the number of accidents

involving

private owned vehicles is less than the number of accidents involving government vehicles .

What could be

the course with government vehicles .

( Mr.

Muhlarhi ) :

Mr.

chairman ,

I am of the opinion that most drivers

of government vehicles have no cars of their own and so they are not expects in driving

People owing

vehicles are not likely to course accidents because they are always behind the wheel and they know how to react if they are exposed to certain danger ,

while

people who do not own vehicles are periodical drivers and so their instincts are not geared to react fast .

- 53 --

(Mr. Chairman ) :

Mr. Muhlarhi ,

from the explanation at the bottom .

of the Appropriation Account it appears that a total amount of R617 700-00 was suspended .

Could you please

inform the Committee of the reasons for this

suspension .

(Mr. Muhlarhi ) :

Mr. Chairman ,

an amount of R617 700-00 was suspended

during the 1981/82 financial year ,

for the following

reasons : -

An amount of R583 000-00 was suspended due to the fact that the Youth Movement could not be started with during the course of the financial year .

We

decided to suspend this amount so that we can be able to start with the project the following financial year and to enable the Department of Works to purchase three buses to transport youth . an amount of R80 000-00 should 1982/83 financial year .

Under this section be made avaliable

in the

An amount of R19 200-00 was

suspended in respect of the section Fuana and Flora and Fisheries ,

this amount was for the fencing of

Man'ombe Nature Reserve . orded but were not yet delivered but the

Most of the materials were

received ,

some of them were

invoices were not yet available .

And a further amount of R3 000-00 in respect of Fisheries was also suspended for the construction of production dam .

In this respect materials were

already delivered but

invoices were not yet avaliable .

A further amount of R12 500-00 was also suspended , this amount was for the purchase of subsidised vehicles .

The application was already approved by the

Treasury and the motor vehicles were not yet delivered .

(Mr. Chairman ) :

Mr. Vukela ,

could you also furnish reasons for the

suspensions of an amount of R25 300 by the Treasury as reflected in the Appropriation Account .

- 54 -

(Mr. Vukela ) :

The amount of R25 000 was donated by Ciba Geigy and Sandoz Products and was specifically made as a financial assistance for the farm project at

Kheto Nxumayo Agricultural High School .

The amount

of R300-00 was donated by :

De Jager Hamum-

R100-00

Maskew Miller-

R100-00

Mc Graw Hill -

R100-00

It was specifically made as financial assistance for the printing of

a " Joint Effort Report " on

Standard 8 Tsonga .

It was not possible to carry

out the specific functions before the close of the financial year under reference ,

hence the suspension

of the amount .

( Mr. Chairman ) :

Mr.

Kruger , according to the Report several projects of

your Department expenditure .

reflects losses on net income over

Could you please furnish more details

about these losses ,

and are proper records kept of

all revenue earning projects .

(Mr. Kruger ) :

The losses of the projects are as follows : -

Bixa-

R15 372-00

Coffe-

R30 934-00

Nuts-

R 7 214-00

The losses are due to the fact that all the trees are not in full production yet .

In the case of Agronomy

Crops the loss is R3 750-00 , the position is that the income has been derived after the close of the financial year .

( Mr. Chairman ) :

Mr. Kruger ,

according to the Appropriation Account

R852 900 was suspended by the Treasury . furnish more details to the Committee .

Could you please

- 55 ·-

( Mr. Kruger ) :

Mr. chairman , the amount suspended

is

due to projects

which were contracted out and the execution of the work could not take place in the current financial year , the tenders were accepted and the Department was committed to pay the outstanding amounts . budgeted funds were not suspended ,

have been paid to revenue ,

If the

the funds would

which will

have

overspending the following financial year .

resulted

in an

The

following project were involved : -

Water supply scheme - Dumphries R40 000 Micro irrigation Ritavi and Mhala ( cirtrus ) -R130 000 Consultant Engineers for Hlaneki planning-

( Mr.

Chairman ) :

R51

800

Milk Scheme - Giyani

-R118 300

Cholera funds

-R397 000

Mr. Sithole ,

could you

please give more details

about the two cases of theft amounting to R2 901 reflected

(Mr. Sithole ) :

as

in the Report .

Mr. chairman ,

on 09 November 1981 , Mr.

Langeveldt of

Elim Hospital reported to this office that there has been burglary during the weekend i.e.

6-9 November 1981 .

Entrance was made through an outside window by breaking a window pane .

The hospital could not verify

the exact amount missing . inspectors were

As a result , the financial

requested to investigate .

was reported to the Louis Trichadt Mr.

Phosa ,

The matter

Police and

the Revenue Clerk , was then arrested and

later released from custody pending further investigations . The inspection report revealed that an amount of R2 570,50 was missing .

The reason for this

large

amount being found in the safe on that weekend is that this hospital was banking its money only once per week . This procedure was contrary to the provisions of T.I 1203.

Elim Hospital was then request to comply with

financial regulation .

56 --

On enquiry by the Department ,

the Louis Trichardt

Police indicated that the case had been referred to the Giyani Police .

This Department then contacted

the Giyani Police who then indicated that the case had been closed as undetected on 1982/06/22 .

In view of the fact that there was no suspect in the case coupled with the contents of the Police Report , the amount in question was then written off ( Treasury approval F9/ 6/4 dated 25/10/1982 ) .

Mr.

chairman ,

on 10/3/1982 the Secretary of Tintswalo

Hospital reported that an amount of R331-00 being clinic fees has been misused by Mr.

R.L.

Chiloane .

The case was then reported to the Mhala Police on 11/03/1982 .

Mr. Chiloane was then arrested and

appeared before court on 17/3/82 where he was found guilty of theft and fined R180 or 180 days imprisonment of which R40-00 was deferred until 24/5/82 .

It should also be pointed out that the amount of R331.00 has been refunded .

(Mr.

Khosa ) :

Mr.

chairman ,

I do not understand why the Giyani

Police did close this

(Col. Sono ) :

Mr.

case of Elim Hospital as undetected

chairman , what we mean by closing the case as

undetected ,

we

imply that at the present moment

there is nobody who could be held

responsible .

The

investigations are still going on and if information leading to the solving of the said case come to light , then the case can still be open .

(Mr. Marais ) :

To add on what has been said Mr.

chairman ,

the

Treasury has also written - off this amount on condition that if the responsible person could be traced later ,

- 57 --

then the money must be recovered .

This means that

even with the Treasury this case is not completely closed .

(Mr.

chairman ) :

Mr. Sithole ,

could you also give more details about

the fire at Nkhensani Hospital which led

to the

loss of stores and equipment to the value of R8 344 .

( Mr. Sithole ) :

Mr.

chairman ,

on 22 July 1981 ,

the Secretary of the

Hospital reported that a fire disaster occurred in the hospital which resulted machinery ,

in damaging equipment ,

linen and some patient's records .

The fire disaster has been caused by a psychiatric patient at the hospital .

This patient was once

employed at the hospital as a nurse . wanted to be re - appointed .

On recovery he

During that time he could

not be re-appointed since he was still under observation . He was then disturbed and during that evening he decided to set alight everything in that hospital .

The matter

was reported to the police and it is not known where he ended up .

(Mr. Nkanyani ) :

Mr.

chairman , I want to know if the amount of

R8 344 was in respect of equipments only and if also cash was involved .

( Mr. Sithole ) :

No Mr. chairman ,

(Mr. Marais ) :

Mr.

chairman ,

I dont think cash

was involved

I think the amount of R8 344 was

determined by the replacement value of the equipments destroyed .

(Mr. Chairman ) :

I want to know from Mr. Marais if Treasury authority was obtained to write - off this amount of R8 344 .

(Mr. Marais ) :

I do not know Mr.

chairman , if Treasury authority was

obtained or not .

I think Mr Nkuna could help me here .

- 58 -

(Mr. Nkuna ) :

Mr.

chairman ,

no Treaury authority has been granted

up to now .

( Mr. Chairman ) :

Mr. Sithole I would like to advise you to take the necessary steps to write-off this amount .

(Mr. Chairman ) :

Mr. Sithole ,

in connection with the removal of

material to the value of R659 from the site at the hospital ,

could you please expalin what control

measures are applied to obviate such occurrances in future .

(Mr. Sithole ) :

Mr. chairman ,

in order to obviate future

occurrances

regarding the removal of material from the hospital site ,

the night watchmen have been instructed to

refer all people coming to deliver goods during the night , to the hospital Secretary who stays within the premises .

( Rev. Kubay) :

Mr. chairman ,

I want to know

if the goods removed were

removed on delivery .

(Mr. Sithole ) :

Mr. chairman what happened here was that the person delivering the goods handed the invoices to the Superintendent who checked the goods with him . superintendent then went to sleep .

The

At the meantime the

were contractors who were building at the Hospital who were moving , they then took every material along with them including the Hospital's material , because they did not know whether they belong to the Hospital or to them .

And no recoveries have been made .

APPENDICES

RESOLUTION OF THE SESSIONAL COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNT FOR 1982 TREASURY

REPPLY

THEREON

RESOLUTION NO . 1

Your Committee begs to report that items of expenditure amounting to R2 304 360 ,

81

specified in paragraph 4 ,

page 2 , of the Report of the

Auditor-General on the Appropriation Accounts for 1980-81 ( G.R.

1982 )

are unauthorised and require to be voted .

Your Committee ,

having made enquiry

into the circumstances ,

recommends

the above sum for specific appropriation by the Legislative Assembly , apportioned as follows : -

R

On Revenue ServicesVote 2 - Interior

.250 319,83

Vote 3 - Works

... 109 623,06

Vote 4 - Education ...

.258 554,28

Vote 5 - Agriculture and Forestry . Vote 7 - Health and Welfare ....

...... 795 303,99

..890 559,65 2 304 360,81

(QUESTIONS 3-6 and 9)

REPLY :

The recommended appropriation of R2 304 360,81 was disposed of by the passing of the Gazankulu Unauthorised Expenditure ( 1980-81 ) Act ,

1982

( Act No.

3 of 1982 )

during the 1982 session

of Legislative Assembly .

SECRETARY

THE TREASURY

GAZANKULU GOVERNMENT

CHAIRMAN

HJ82.3 G39639a

1983

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