Gazankulu Legislative Assembly. Report of the Sessional Committee on Public Accounts

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STANFORD LIBRARIES

Gazankulu (South Africa) . Legislative Assembly. Sessional Committee on Public Accounts .

Report of the Sessional Committee on Public Accounts .

HJ 82.3 G39639A 1985

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(South Africa ). GAZANKULU

LEGISLATIVE

ASSEMBLY

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REPORT

THE

OF

SESSIONAL

COMMITTEE

ON

PUBLIC

ACCOUNTS

1985

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- 1 -

RULE

144 ( b )

OF

GAZANKULU

THE

STANDING

LEGISLATIVE

RULES

OF

THE

ASSEMBLY

As soon as possible after the beginning of each session the Legislative Assembly shall appoint the following Sessional Committees each consisting of five members including the Chairman thereof : -

(b)

On Public Accounts whose terms of reference shall be to examine and report to the Assembly upon : -

(i)

the accounts showing the appropriation of the sums granted by the Assembly to meet public expenditure ; and

(ii )

the annual report of the Auditor- General which report shall stand referred to the Sessional Committee ;

and the report of the Sessional Committee shall be laid upon the Table whereupon such report shall be formally considered by the Assembly .

- 2 -

ANNOUNCEMENT

23 APRIL 1985 :

The following Honourable members have been appointed as members of the Sessional Committee on Gazankulu Government Accounts : -

Chief N.C. Mathebula Mr. G.M. Mushwana

Mr. T.C. Hlayisi

Mr. V.M. Ngobeni Mr. M.A. Chauke

The Committee has been empowered in terms of Rule

151 to take evidence and call for papers .

MATTERS

23 APRIL 1985 :

REFERRED

TO

THE

COMMITTEE

Report of the Auditor- General on the Accounts of the Gazankulu Government and of the Accounts of Lower Authorities in the area for the financial year 1983/84 referred to the Committee in terms of Rule 144 ( B ) .

23 APRIL 1985 :

Reply of the Treasury to the Resolution of the Report of the Sessional Committee on Gazankulu Accounts , 1984 , tabled .

Recommended that it be

referred to the Sessional Committee on Gazankulu Accounts 1985 .

- 3-

PROCEEDINGS OF THE COMMITTEE

PROCEEDING OF THE SESSIONAL COMMITTEE ON GAZANKULU ACCOUNTS , 1985 .

Appointed in terms of Rule 144 ( B ) of the Rules of the Gazankulu Legislative Assembly , the Committee consisting of Chief N.C. Mathebula ( Chairman ) , Mr. G.M. Mushwana , Mr. T.C. Hlayisi , Mr. V.M. Ngobeni and Mr. M.A. Chauke .

TUESDAY 23 APRIL 1985

PRESENT

Mr. P.J. Bakkes-

Deputy Chief Auditor representing the Auditor- General

Mr. W.M.N. Erasmus-

Senior State Auditor

Mr. M.F. Mdungazi-

Deputy Secretary for Finance

Mr. D.M. Mabunda-

Accountant Department of Interior

Mr. J.D. Mativandlela-

Secretary for the Department of the Interior

Mr. P.J. Venter-

Secretary for the Department of Justice

Mr. S.D.C. Vukela-

Secretary for the Department of Education

Mr. M.W. Du Preez-

Secretary for the Department of Finance .

Mr. A.D. Makondo-

Clerk of the Committee

Mr. C.N. Maphophe-

Assistant Clerk of the Committee

Clerk reads Rule 144 ( B ) of the Procedure of the Gazankulu Legislative Assembly and the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly's announcement constituting the committee .

Clerk intimated that the committee would proceed to the election of chairman .

Whereupon the motion of Mr. G.M. Mushwana RESOLVED :

That the evidence given before the committee be in English and be recorded verbatim insofar as it is practicable to do so .

The committee resumed the consideration of the Report of the Auditor - General on Accounts of the Gazankulu Government 1983-84

- 4 -

Mr. W.M.N. Erusmus , Senior State Auditor , Mr. J.D. Mativandlela , Secretary for the Department of the Interior .

Mr. M.W. Du Preez , Secretary for the

Department of Works , Mr. S.D.C. Vukela , Secretary for the department of Education , Mr. P.J. Venter , Secretary for the Department of Justice , Mr. G.H.P. Marais , Secretary for the Department of Finance and Mr. M.F. Mdungaz i , Secretary to the Treasury were at 11hrs 20

Chairman

announced that there were still items on the programme to be discussed , but as the officers who are to be examined are not present , be asked the tomorrow the 24 April 1984

committee to adjourn until

at 9hrs .

PROCEEDINGS OF THE COMMITTEE

PROCEEDINGS OF THE SESSIONAL COMMITTEE ON GAZANKULU ACCOUNTS , 1985

PRESENT

Mr. W.M.N. Erasmus-

Senior State Auditor

Dr. P. Robert-

Secretary for the Department of Health and Welfare .

Mr. W.B. Matthews-

Secretary for the Department of the Chief Minister and Economic Affairs and Police

Mr. L.A. van Dyk-

Secretary for the Department of Agriculture and Forestry.

Brig . D.J. Coetzee-

Commissioner , Gazankulu Police

Mr. G.H.P. Marais-

Secretary for the Department of Finance

Mr. M.F. Mdungazi-

Secretary for the Treasury

Mr. M.R. Qomondi-

Accountant for the Department of Health and Welfare

Mr. N.S. Mgimeti-

Accountant for the Department of Health and Welfare

Mr. A.D. Makondo-

Clerk of the committee

Mr. C.N. Maphophe-

Assistant clerk of the committee

The Committee resumed the consideration of the Report of the Auditor-General on Accounts of the Gazankulu Government 1983-84 , for the remaining items at 9hrs .

- 5-

Mr. W.M.N. Erasmus , Senior State Auditor , Mr. W.B. Matthews , Secretary for the Department of Chief Minister and Economic Affairs and Police ; Mr. L.A. van Dyk , Secretary for the Department of Agriculture and Forestry; Mr. G.H.P. Marais , Secretary for the Department of Finance ; Mr. M.F. Mdungazi , secretary to the Treasury ; Brigadier D.J. Coetzee , Commisioner of Police Gazankulu ; Dr. P. Robert , Secretary for the Department of Health and Welfare were examined .

The Chairman announced

that the programme had been completed and that the Committee had nothing more to discuss .

He thanked the members for their attendance and

co-operation and Mr. Bakkes for his assistance and guidance .

The Committee deleberated and at 10hrs 30 min adjourned sine dîe .

- 6 -

FIRST REPORT

UNAUTHORISED

EXPENDITURE ( 1983-84 )

Resolution 1.

Your Committee begs to report that items of expenditure amounting to R9 011 503,89 specified in paragraph 4 page 2 , of the Report of the Auditor -General on the Appropriation Accounts for 1983-84 ( G.R. 1985 ) are unauthorised and require to be voted .

Your Committee , having made enquiry into the circumstances , recommends the above sum for specific appropriation by the Legislative Assembly, apportioned as follows : On Revenue Services-

Vote 4 · Education ....

3 619 222,84

Vote 5 · Agriculture & Forestry

3 134 752,54

Vote 7 - Health and Welfare

2 257 528,51 9 011 503,89

(Questions

34-42 , 70-80 and 93-96 )

unla Mathe Conference Room Legislative Assembly

Giyani

24 April 1985

CHAIRMAN

- 7 -

SECOND REPORT

Your Committee , having considered and examined the remainder of the Report of the Auditor- General on the Accounts of the Gazankulu Government and of the Accounts of Lower Authorities in the area for the financial year 1983-84 referred to it , and having taken evidence which it submits herewith , has no further comments to make upon it .

Conference Room ,

‫ماس‬

Legislative Assembly,

Martha Giyani CHAIRMAN

24 April 1995

- 8 -

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TUESDAY AND WEDNESDAY, 23 AND 24 APRIL 1985 ( AT 9 hrs00 )

Appropriations withheld or suspended by the Treasury , paragraph 13 .

1.

Chairman . )

We will firstly deal with appropriations withheld or suspended

by the Treasury for department of Works .

Mr. Du Preez could you please elaborate ,

on the suspension of the amount of R2 025 500?- ( Mr. Du Preez . )

Mr. Chairman ,

when the whole of the Gazankulu Government's budget for the financial year 1983/84 was adjusted , my budget was reduced to R33 240 000.

Later on , it was

discovered that there was still a shortage of R5 100 000 , from which amount the sum of R2 025 000 was deducted from my budget . the following projects had to be suspended : -

As a result of this reduction Giyani Goodshed R50 000 , Hostel

Letaba School for the Handicap R290 000 ; Superintendent house Malamulele hospital R40 000 ; Road scraper axles R75 000 ; the Shishimbyi river bridge R100 000 ; the Khokhovela- Athol bridge R50 000 ; the Thulamahashe- Rolle pipeline R400 000 and the Giyani Constantia

road R1 020 000 , which then gives you a total of

R2 025 000 .

Motor vehicles , Paragraph 18

2.

Mr. G.M. Mushwana . )

Mr. Du Preez , could you please give an indication to the

Committee of your policy in regard to the purchase of new vehicles?- ( Mr. Du Preez . ) Mr. Chairman , I am approached annually by the accounting officers who present their requirements for the particular fiscal year .

Estimates we prepared make

provision for additional vehicles to cater for new functions or expanded functions to be performed by the various departments .

Within the limits of the

funds voted , vehicles are purchased on State contract .

3.

Mr. M.V. Ngobeni . )

Mr Du Preez , I also notice that the total distance

covered by official and subsidised vehicles increased considerably .

Could you

explain to the Committee the responsibility of your department in connection with the costs and kilometres travelled? - (Mr. Du Preez . )

Mr. Chairman , each

accounting officer is responsible for the control of the distance covered by the vehicles allocated to his department and he budgets accordingly for the expenditure connected with the distance travelled .

I am responsible for the

funds voted for repair and maintenance of Government vehicles and also for the purchase of fuel and lubricants to be used on those vehicles , and for your

- 9 -

information , the total expenditure on vehicle maintenance , running cost , repair , fuel and lubricants for the year under review amounted to R6 916 300 .

4.

Mr. T.C. Hlayisi . )

Mr. Du Preez , could you please give an indication of the

number of subsidised and Government vehicles allocated to your Department as at 31 March 1984?- ( Mr. Du Preez . ) Mr. Chairman the number of subsidised vehicles allocated to the officials of my Department were 29 and out of these 14 have completed their official life .

Secondly , 242 government vehicles were allocated to

my department .

5.

Mr. M.A. Chauke . )

Mr. Du Preez , how are the kilometers travelled controlled

by your Department?- ( Mr. Du Preez . ) Mr. Chairman , in my department , each vehicle has been allocated with a certain number of kilometers to be covered during a particular year .

Every month when logsheets are submitted , a thorough check is

made if some vehicles have exceeded their monthly allocation , the officer concerned is called upon to explain after which an additional amount if necessary is allocated to enable him to do his work properly, or else stricter control is excercised so that he stays within his annual allocation .

No one is allowed to

drive a government vehicle in my department without prior authority by means of an iti nerary , and further my instruction is that all vehicles must be parked at offices outside normal working hours except those of officers that are on standby and those who have been granted permission to park their vehicles at their places of residence .

Any deviation from these instructions renders such offending officers

liable for the unauthorised kilometres travelled .

6.

Chairman . )

Mr. Du Preez , could you please give details of kilometres travelled

by each subsidized vehicle for the year under review?- ( Mr Du Preez . )

Mr. Chairman ,

the number of kilometres travelled by each of the subsidized vehicles allocated to the officers of my Department are as follows : -

REG . NO.

OFFICIAL KILOMETRE

PRIVATE KM

TOTAL TRAVELLED

GY 3030

24307

GY 2497

35211

109

35320

GY 3845

30691

4158

34849

GY 3114

24499

10799

35298

GY 1909

28339

1361

29700

GY 3368

26183

4572

30755

24307

- 10 -

GY 3381

29788

5030

34818

GY 2559

18277

1480

19757

GM 118

28680

11442

40122

GY 3429

15088

1525

16613

GY 2493

23043

4674

27717

GY 2076

32036

5098

37134

GY 3117

29420

3704

33124

GY 3060

10117

393

10510

GY 2429

21620

3285

24905

GY 2509

9557

433

9990

GY 3212

27662

7303

34965

GY 2578

12644

8977

21621

GY 3467

32712

1123

33835

GY 927

25396

6950

32346

GY 2579

8291

2530

10821

GY 3077

28358

5870

34228

GY 3099

20257

11729

31986

GY 3092

22600

2912

25512

GM 472

23990

7984

31974

GM 419

29602

6772

36374

GY 314

22346

14329

36675

GY 3136

11011

2398

13409

8908

1142

660633

138082

10050 798715

GR 1200 Grand Total

7.

Mr. G.M. Mushwana . )

Mr Du Preez , according to the statement , 13 government

vehicles were involved in accidents when used irregularly .

Could you please

give an indication of the major instances of irregular use of the vehicles?(Mr. Du Preez . ) Mr. Chairman , I would like to explain what is meant by irregular use when accidents occur .

Firstly this may mean if someone do take a vehicle which

is not allocated to him and using it

without prior authority .

Cases of this nature

are very infrequent and usually only occur when the keys are removed from the possession of the authorised person without his knowledge .

Secondly this may occur

when a person to whom a vehicle has been allocated for official purposes when duly authorised , then uses the vehicle for private purposes , usually after hours . Thirdly it occurs when a person who has been duly authorised to use a vehicle for official purposes , deviates from his authorised route for private purpose .

- 11 .

This is probably the most common occurence .

And lastly , irregular use of the

vehicle occurs when a person who has been duly authorised to use a vehicle for official purposes does so under the influence of liquor or intoxicating drug . The forgoing cases only occur when the supervising or controlling officer is not present at the time of the offence being committed and the intergrity and responsibility of the subordinate is being relied on .

8.

Mr. M.V. Ngobeni . )

Mr. Du Preez ,

does your Department keep record of the drivers

responsible for these accidents and if so , could you give an indication to the committee of cases where a driver was involved in more than one accident over the last three years if any? - ( Mr. Du Preez . ) Mr. Chairman , cases where drivers were involved in more than one accident are as follows : -

In the Department of Works

Chief Minister and Economic Affairs we have Malongete G.D. who had two cases , Mkhonto two cases , Rivisi T.E. also two cases .

At the Department of Interior

Shikwambani B. had two cases and Matiko F.T. also two cases .

At the Department of Works ,

Sechube P. had two cases , Rikhotso K.R. two cases , and Mr. Makhuba also two cases . At the Department of Agriculture and Forestry Ritshuri M.C. had 3 cases , Chauke R.G. two cases , Baloyi M.K. two cases and Sithole S.G. two cases . At the Department of Health and Welfare , Mr. Shirindi had three cases , Khosa J.H.M. two cases , and Mobbie J.R. also had three cases .

No cases were reported for the

Department of Justice , Finance and Police where an officer was involved in more than one case of accident .

9.

Mr.T .C . Hlayisi . )

Mr. Du Preez , what disciplinary action is taken against

officers who were involved in the accidents?- ( Mr. Du Preez . )

Mr. Chairman ,

the circumstances of the accidents are examined and decision is taken accordingly . If the driver is found guilty in a court of law he is automatically required to make good the loss incurred by the State in so far as his financial circumstances permit .

This is specifically the case with irregular use .

Where a

driver has been

duly authorised and is operating within the scope of that authority , steps taken depend on whether he was the cause of the accident or not .

If he was the cause

of the accident then he can be charged for misconduct in terms of the Gazankulu Public Service Act 1972 and be fined departmentally .

Since I assumed office

18 officers from my department have been charged and 37 recommendations have been made to other Accounting Officers that members of their staff also be charged accordingly .

Where officers have poor accident record their authority to drive

Government vehicles is withdrawn .

- 12 .

I have required that a number of officers have their eyes tested and also that some officers from my department be retested for driving ability .

Up to the

present moment there is no record kept in respect of various departments , but only the overall record of all the departments combined , which is used when compiling the annual report on transport .

An improved system of record keeping is being

instituted .

10.

Mr. G.M. Mushwana . )

the vehicles accidents .

Mr. Du Preez , may I ask an additional question regarding I would like to be clarified as to whether certain amounts

have been recovered as compesation for vehicle damaged during accidents as a result of drastic measures taken by your department against the offenders? ( Mr. Du Preez . ) Mr. Chairman , certain moneys have been recovered . ( Mr Marais ) May I just add Mr. Chairman , that those cases

are referred to the Treasury

Appropriation account , Paragraph 17

11.

Mr. M.A. Chauke . )

Mr. Du Preez , according to the appropriation account savings

on programmes 3 and 5 are mainly due to projects which could not be completed during the year .

Could you please give an indication of the projects and

what progress has since been made?- ( Mr. Du Preez . ) Mr. Chairman , savings were due mainly to the following projects which could not be completed during financial year 1983/84 , some of which have now since been completed .

the

Under Roads and

Bridges we have the Giyani -Malamulele road which was 84% completed during January 1985 the Mbhokota - Riverplaats road in January 1985 was 85% complete the terring of Giyani -Constatia road was 99% complete in January 1985 ; the Thomo-Gawula road was 68% complete in January 1985 , and Nkowankowa tarring of streets phase 1 was completed during June 1984.

Under water supply we have Nkowankowa water

purification works which has been completed ; the Dwarsloop waterworks and reservoir is also completed ; the Sewage reticulation- Industrial site at Giyani is still going on; and the Thulamahashe water works which has since been completed .

Under erection

of structures and rendering of services , we have the hostel for Letaba School for the handicapped which was suspended ; the stormwater drainage- Giyani Goodshed was

also

suspended; Nkhensani hospital nurses home which is completed , the house for superintendent at Malamulele hospital which has been suspended and the Youth Movement Camp which has not been started with .

Mr. Chairman , I just want to add

something in connection with the Youth Movement's Camp , provision is always made in the annual budget but we were still waiting for a site which was not yet identified , so I am waiting to be shown where to start building .

13-

(Mr. Chairman )

We are through with the department of Works , is there any member

who would like to comment before we start with the Department of Justice? seems there is no member who would like to comment . Vote 6 Department of Justice .

We are now going to

It

- 14 -

Revenue , Paragraph 10

12.

Mr. Chairman . )

Mr. Venter could you please explain the nature of the

outstanding amount of R89 545?- ( Mr. Venter )

Mr. Chairman , the nature of the

outstanding amount of R89 545,00 is as follows : - Lease Rent for Giyani R4 664-00 ; lease rent for Mhala Rl 440-00 , lease rent for Ritavi R1 680-00 , and lease rent for Malamulele R508-00 , which brings the total to R8 292-00 .

There were also trading

licences for Giyani which amounted to R890-00 ; trading licences for Mhala R900-00 , trading licences for Ritavi R1 050-00 , and trading licences for Malamulele R520-00 .

The outstanding amount of trading licences bring

the total to

Another part of the outstanding amount of Revenue was for provisional

R3 360-00 .

tax for Giyani

R39 975-79 ; provisional tax for Mhala R29 093-00 , there was no

outstanding provisional tax at Ritavi , and outstanding provisional tax for Malamulele was 88 824-34.

This bring the total outstanding provisional tax to R77 893-13 .

The gross total for outstanding amount of Revenue is R89 545-13 .

The said

amounts have since been collected in the normal course of duties .

Appropriation withheld or suspended by the Treasury , paragraph 13 .

13.

Mr. Mushwana . )

Mr. Venter , could you please give more detail of the

suspension of the amount of R24 000-00?- ( Mr. Venter )

Mr. Chairman , as a

result

of information contained in minute F9/7 /5-1 over F4/2 /2-83/84 dated 1983 April 13 received from the Department of Finance , it was decided that the amount of R5 100 000 being

shortage for the 1983/84 financial year's main budget be met from votes

of all the departments by suspending certain amounts .

The department of Justice

contributed the amount of R24 000 towards that end from its vote by suspending R2 000 from

Program 2 ( publications ) ; R2 000 also from Program 2 (Legal costs ) ; and R20 000 from Program 3 (Witness fees ) .

Motor vehicles purchases , paragraph 18 ( 1 ) ( a )

14.

Mr. M.V. Ngobeni . ) Mr. Venter , how many government and subsidised

vehicles

are allocated to your deaprtment?- ( Mr. Venter ) Mr. Chairman , 33 government vehicles and 7 susbsidised vehicles were allocated to my department , which gives us a total of 40 vehicles .

- 15 -

15.

Mr. T.C. Hlayisi . )

Mr. Venter , how are the amount of kilometres travelled

controlled by your department ?- ( Mr. Venter )

Mr. Chairman , the subsidised vehicles

are allocated 2 500km to 3 000 km per month depending on the nature of work , pool vehicles 2 000km court 2 500km

per month , pension and tax tours 2 500km per month and periodical

per month .

Itineraries are submitted for each trip undertaken and

trips are co-ordinated . Officers misusing official vehicles are suspended from driving official vehicles .

16.

Mr. M.A. Chauke . )

Mr Venter , could you please give details of the amount of

kilometres travelled by each subsidised vehicle for the year under review? - ( Mr. Venter . ) Mr. Chairman , GY 2 which is the vehicle allocated to the Secretary , that is , myself , has travelled 32 364 km , GY 2426 which was allocated to the deputy Secretary A.M. Hlungwani travelled 20 446 km , GY 3150 which was allocated to the Regional Magistrate Mr. J.J.T. Tromp travelled 30 118km , Gm 1 which was allocated to the Magistrate Malamulele , Mr. J.A. van Wyk Nel travelled 37 718 km , GR 1 which was allocated to Magistrate Ritavi , Mr. P.W. Jordaan , travelled

8 013 km ; GH 3223 allocated to the

Magistrate Mhala Mr. M.L. Mushwana , travelled 26 783 km and GY 3200 allocated to the Magistrate Giyani travelled 22 719 km .

Irregularities and losses , Paragraph 21 ( 1 ) .

17.

Mr. Chairman . )

Mr. Venter , could you please elaborate on the three cases of

theft?- ( Mr. Venter )

Mr. Chairman , the three cases of theft reported during

the period under review were commited by Khoza A.M. of Mhala , who embezzled public funds to the value of R1 647,00 . police .

The matter was duly investigated and reported to the

He was found guilty by the court of law and sentenced to a fine of

R500,00 which he paid .

He was also ordered to pay the amount of R1 647,00 but could

only pay R911,61 by means of recovery from his pension contributions .

The balance

was written off after the necessary treasury authority was obtained , and after we have failed to collect same . Public Service .

The officer in question has been discharged from the

The second case was for Mavanyisi N.N. of the Magistrate Ritavi who

embezzled an amount of R2 042,75 .

The said amount has been refunded and the

officer was discharged from the Public Service .

The last case was commited by

Shivambu E.E. of Magistrate Mhala .

The officer was charged for theft of R171-30 ,

but the court found him not guilty .

He collected the amount during a tax- tour ,

instead of depositing the money in the office , he kept it in the car and latter overturned with the car and the amount got lost . 1167 dated 19 October 1982 .

He refunded the money per cheque no .

-- 16-

18.

Mr. Mushwana . )

Mr. Venter , with your permission Mr. Chairman , I just want to

make a follow-up concerning these cases of embezzlement of funds .

Mr. Venter could you

enlighten this committee as to how long this cases were discovered, I mean from the time when the money

was stolen and the time when the theft was discovered , and what

are the procedures followed?- ( Mr. Venter )

Mr. Chairman , the procedure is that

registers are checked on a weekly bases, so the thefts were discovered within a short period .

For instance in the case of Mavanyisi N.N. , the Magistrate Ritavi

reported to me that the books of the said officer were not up to date .

He

then took the enitiative of checking the books and then discovered the theft of R2 042,75 . Concerning

Mr.

Shivambu

E.E.'s case I can say that the theft was discovered

immediately since he overturned with the vehicle in which he kept the money when he came from the tax tour .

But the procedure is

that money is being checked on

daily basis.

19.

Mr. Mushwans . )

Mr. Venter what steps have been taken to ensure that such

occurances are not repeated?- ( Mr. Venter)

Mr. Chairman as I said, we are trying

by all means to check the collected monies daily .

This procedure helps us to curb

such occurances .

20.

Mr. Mushwana. )

Mr. Venter , could you also give a brief explanation on the write

off of the two cases of deferred fines of R1 120?- ( Mr. Venter ) Mr. Chairman , the two cases of deferred fines of R1 120-00 emanated from the Magistrate Giyani where several warrants of arrest were issued

without success .

Treasury approval for the

write off of this amount was obtained .

21.

Mr. V.M. Ngobeni . )

Mr. Venter , what was the total amount of the penalties that

were imposed , and were any amounts paid actually in court?- (Mr. Venter) Mr. Chairman , the total of penalties imposed were R1 200,00 and R120,00 respectively. Only an amount of R120,00 was paid.

COMPENSATION PAYMENTS, Paragraph 21 (2 )

22.

Mr. T.C. Hlayisi . )

Mr. Venter , I also notice that an amount of R1 000 was

paid in respect of an unlawful detention . ( Mr. Venter)

could you please give more details?-

Mr. Chairman on 01 November 1982 , Mr. Madalana won an appeal in

a case where he was convicted and sentenced by the Magistrate Mhala.

The clerk of the

court-Mhala neglected or failed to notify the gaoler about the conviction and

sentence being set aside .

‫‪ ..‬ما‬

- 17 .

When the clerk of the later sent a telegram to the Prison Mr. Madalana had escaped from prison and went to his attorney who told him that his conviction and sentence were set aside by the Supreme Court before he escaped from prison .

The

telegram was sent on 23 March 1983 and Mr. Madalana had served some period after his conviction and sentece was set aside .

The department was found to be liable

for unlawful detention and paid the amount of R1 000 as settlement

23.

Mr. M.A. Chauke ) .

out of court .

Mr. Venter , in connection with the unlawful detention , were

any action taken against the official or officials responsible for this detention?( Mr. Venter ) Mr. Chairman , the clerk of the court whose duty it is to notify the prison department of the outcome of review and appeal cases is responsible for any unlawful detention caused by his act of ommission .

The officer was Khoza A.M.

The matter was duly investigated and referred to the State-Attorney who ruled that the department was liable for the unlawful detention in the amount of R1 000.

When this case was going on between this office and the State-Attorney

there was a case of embezzlment of a amount of R1 647,00 by the same clerk of the court .

The officer was discharged from the Public Service when steps were being taken

against the officer for the recovery of the R1 000.

The department could not

recover this as the officer was ordered to refund the R1 647,00 which be embezzled and only R911,00 of that amount could be recovered .

- 18 -

OUTSTANDING REVENUE , PARAGRAPH 20 ( 2 )

24.

Mr. Chairman . )

Mr. Mativandlela , I notice that the total amount of revenue

outstanding at 31 March 1984 amounted to R316 056.

Could you please give an indication

of the nature of the outstanding amount of R18 200?- ( Mr. Mativandlela ) Mr. Chairman , the outstanding amount of R18 200 is due mainly to the people who purchased sites but neither developed them nor paid service charges . possess

these sites .

The Department had to cancell and re-

The repossession took an extended period and the Department is

still in the process of writing off the outstanding amount .

The Department will in

future only issue a Deed of Grant after the building has been Completed .

This control

measure will thus compel the people to complete their buildings within the prescribed period of 2 years .

APPROPRIATION WITHHELD OR SUSPENDED BY THE TREASURY PARAGRAPH 13 .

25.

Mr. Mushwana . )

Treasury .

Mr. Mativandlela I notice that R440 000 was suspended by the

Could you please give more details?- ( Mr. Mativandlela . )

Mr. Chairman , the

amount of R440 000 has been suspended by the Treasury in terms of Section 8 ( 1 ) of the Exchequer and Ausit Act 1975 , apparently in view of the then ruling in the country. can add here ,

economic condition

Treasury needed the money to meet unforseen government expenditure .

I

the two items from which the money was drawn was pensions , the

R400 000 was withdrawn from that and the sports R40 000.

( Mr. Mushwana)

Was this

not done at the expense of the pensioners who could have otherwise benefited from this pension , or was it pensions for the public servants?- ( Mr. Mativandlela )

It was

pensions for Social pensions .

26.

(Mr. Ngobeni . )

Mr. Mativandlela , I notice that the total amount of R22 770

outstanding in respect of instalments , increased significantly with that of the previous year .

What would you say is the main reason that contributes to this state

affairs? - ( Mr. Mativandlela . ) in respect of instalments

Mr. Chairman , the increase in the outstanding amount

is due mainly to the following increases as from 1 March 1983

I would like to add that rates or services rates were increased to start on the 1st of March 1983.

These were the charges or this is what happended , rental charges

were increased from R10 to R19 , that is 90% increase ; electricity charges increase from 1,5c to 3,5c per unit charge which is 166,6% increas ; residential sites increased from 17c to 20c per square meter , which is 15% increase , business sites increased from 44c to 50c per square meter , which is 13,6% increase and purchase price for four-roomed houses increased from R1 800 to R4 000 per house , which is 117,3% increase .

- 20 -

every vehicle is the amount

allocated a maximum distance to be travelled every month related to

available in the vote concerned .

For each trip an itinerary is

completed and approved by a supervising official .

31.

Mr. Ngobeni . ) .

Mr. Mativandlela , could you please give details of the total

kilometres travelled by each subsidised vehicle for the year under review?( Mr. Mativandlela)

Mr. Chairman , vehicle no GY 2969 travelled 35 851 official

kilometres and 4 991 private kilometres making a total of 40 842 kilometres . Vehicle no GY 2620 travelled 30 509 official kilometres and 2 368 private kilometres making a total of 32 877 kilometres .

Both vehicles

travelled a total of 66 360 official

kilometres and 7 359 private kilometres , making a total of kilometres travelled of 73 719.

32.

Mr. Chairman . )

I would like Mr. Mativandlela to submit the names of the

owners of subsidised vehicles no GY 2969 and GY 2620.

( Mr. Mativandlela )

Mr. Chairman , GY 2969 belongs to the Secretary , that is myself , and GY 2620 belongs to the Assistant Secretary Mr. Mahungati .

33.

Mr. Vukela . )

Mr. Chairman , I would like to comment on the case of theft which

according to the Committee it seems the Department of Interior will be summoned again to give details of the proceedings .

According to my opinion we

in certainity when the case will be finalised .

cannot say

For the correction of the minutes

Mr. Chairman , I would like to suggest that the information be conveyed to all the members rather calling the department to appear before the Sessional Committee again . (Mr. Bakkes )

Mr. Chairman I would like to point out that this case will be

reported again in the next Auditor's Report .

- 20 -

every vehicle is the amount

allocated a maximum distance to be travelled every month related to

available in the vote concerned .

For each trip an itinerary is

completed and approved by a supervising official .

Mr. Ngobeni . ) .

Mr. Mativandlela , could you please give details of the total

kilometres travelled by each subsidised vehicle for the year under review?(Mr. Mativandlela )

Mr. Chairman , vehicle no GY 2969 travelled 35 851 official

kilometres and 4 991 private kilometres making a total of 40 842 kilometres . Vehicle no GY 2620 travelled 30 509 official kilometres and 2 368 private kilometres making a total of 32 877 kilometres .

Both vehicles

travelled a total of 66 360 official

kilometres and 7 359 private kilometres , making a total of kilometres travelled of 73 719.

32 .

Mr. Chairman . )

I would like Mr. Mativandlela to submit the names of the

owners of subsidised vehicles no GY 2969 and GY 2620.

(Mr. Mativandlela)

Mr. Chairman , GY 2969 belongs to the Secretary , that is myself , and GY 2620 belongs to the Assistant Secretary Mr. Mahungati .

33.

Mr. Vukela . )

Mr. Chairman , I would like to comment on the case of theft which

according to the Committee it seems the Department of Interior will be summoned again to give details of the proceedings .

According to my opinion we

in certainity when the case will be finalised .

cannot say

For the correction of the minutes

Mr. Chairman , I would like to suggest that the information be conveyed to all the members rather calling the department to appear before the Sessional Committee again . (Mr. Bakkes )

Mr. Chairman I would like to point out that this case will be

reported again in the next Auditor's Report .

- 22 --

An increased expenditure on salaries has a direct bearing on the amount to be paid

out towards contributions to the pension fund .

Mr. Chairman , the excess on

salaries alone was 2.2 million rand which had a corresponding effect on the excess on contributions to the pension fund .

Mr. Chairman , the photo- copier used by the

Administrative section and the set of Gestetner machines

used for printing purposes

by the examination section needed prompt service and repair whenever they went out of commission in order to facilitate the work in these sections .

The nature of

the work in the examinations sections is such that we cannot afford to have a machine which packs up at the most critical time .

The photo-copier in the

administrative section in particular involved us in such heavy repair costs that we were compelled to hire a new machine rather machine which broke down every other day .

than continue repairing

My experience

economical to hire a machine of this type than to by one .

a

is now that it is most Mr. Chairman , the

question of higher salaries paid as a result of the recognition

of higher

qualifications and the implementation of occupational differentiation was explained at length to the Sessional Committee on Public Accounts held on Tuesday and Wednesday the eighth and nineth of May 1984.

The information is available on pages 8

and 9 of the Sessional Committee's Report to the Gazankulu Legislative Assembly 1984 , with your permission Mr. Chairman , I could skip this detailed exposition , but if you insist sir, that the details be reapeted here , I shall abide by your ruling .

I

am bringing up this information Mr. Chairman , in order to indicate that certain factors and phenomena which affected my Department's Vote adversely in the past , would still prevail during the 1983/84 financial year thus leading to another big deficit . I also pointed out Mr. Chairman that these factors and phenomena would only be taken care of in the 1984/85 financial year , thus enabling my department to avoid a deficit of this magnitude in that financial year . Mr. Chairman , I wish to indicate retirements and 17 deaths .

Regarding leave gratuities

that among the leading staff there were seven

In the administrative , clerical , control

and .

general staff there were two retirements and two deaths . While it is easy to budget for retirments , it is not easy to budget for deaths . What normally happens is that nominal amounts of R1 000 are budgeted under the respective programmes in respect of leave gratuities .

Nineteen deaths occuring within one financial year were unprecedented in the history of my department and could not be sufficiently covered by nominal amounts of as little as R1000 .

On the other hand Mr. Chairman , if large amounts were budgeted to cover

which no one knew would occur , an inflated budget would most likely arise . Mr. Chairman , rising prices especially as far as commodities such as paper are

deaths

- 23 -

concerned are almost an everyday occurrence , and I need not comment any further on this aspect .

However , it must be stated that as far as books are concerned

not only the cost of paper that is taken into account .

it is

publishers and booksellers also

expect to cover various costs and still make a profit , hence the high prices we have

to pay. It must also be stated that due to unforeseen circumstances ,

textbooks and classreaders amounting to 229 300 which should have been delivered in the 1982/83 financial year were only received and paid for in the 1983/84 financial year .

Mr. Chairman , the expenditure on motor transport is to a great extent related

to activities of the Tsonga Language Centenary which I have outlined in my elaborations on the main reasons for the extra-ordinary high excess of my Department's vote .

Each vehicle which took active part in the activities of the

centenary exceeded

its kilometres allocation by more than 70%.

motor transport alone was R253 000.

The total excess on

The unanticipated increases in tarriffs which

came into operation with effect from 1 September 1982 and 1 September 1983 also had a direct bearing on the excessive expenditure related to motor transport .

The

application of tight security measures by the examination section , necessitated more trips since examination scripts and question papers were transported on a daily basis .

34.

Mr. Mushwana . )

Mr. Vukela , at what stage do you think the implementation of

occupational differentiation will be finalised?

( Mr. Vukela ) Mr. Chairman , for all

practical purposes , the implementation of occupational differentiation for educators will be finalised at the end of May 1985. and

CS

However , odd cases of overpayments

underpayments which normally occur as a result of any change in salary

structures and which of necessity need adjustment should be finalised by the end of September 1985.

Mr. Chairman , the occupational differentiation of cultural

officers , and language practitioners whose salaries are paid out of my department's vote

was implemented with effect from 01 October 1984 and 01 February 1985

respectively.

The occupational differentiation for Archivists and Librarians who also

draw their salaries from my vote has not yet been announced , and I am not competent to indicate when finality will be reached as far as

these cases

are

concerned.

36.

Mr. Ngobeni . )

Mr. Vukela , from the Appropriation Account on page 19 of the

Report it appears that the excess on your vote is more than 12% . extraordinary

high ?

( Mr. Vukela )

12% is extraordinary high .

In this not

Mr. Chairman , I agree that the excess of

- 24 -

However , Mr. Chairman , for reasons I have furnished when elaborating on the main reasons for exceeding the vote of the department of Education by R3 619 222,84 , it was not possible to keep the excess lower than 12%.

37.

Mr. Vukela , did you apply for the necessary funds in the

Mr. Hlayisi )

additional estimates?-

( Mr. Vukela )

Mr. Chairman , in reply to minute No F4/2/2-

83/84 dated 1983 November 03 received from the Secretary for Finance , I indicated in my 3/3-83/84 that my department anticipated a deficit of plus minus R3 500 000 in the 1983/84 financial year .

You will observe Mr. Chairman , that my estimation

was not far off the mark .

38.

Mr. Chauke )

granted?

Mr. Vukela , what was the additional amount

- ( Mr . Vukela ) Mr. Chairman , no additional amount was granted .

Mr. Chairman with your

permision, I hope you will have noted that the Accounting Officers of the department of Works and Justice have indicated that after the printing and approval of the Blue Book by the Legislative Assembly , it became necessary to cut the budget by R5 100 000 which we had expected to raise a loan and we were not successful .

Since the money

was not forthcoming , each and every department was compelled to cut a certain amount to set-off the deficit .

39.

Mr. Chairman . )

My department was not an exception either .

Mr. Vukela , did you draw the attention of the Treasury to the

fact that funds granted might not be sufficient ?- ( Mr. Vukela ) Mr. Chairman , since no additional funds could be granted , there was no way in which the insufficiency of such funds could be indicated .

40.

Mr. Mushwana . )

Mr. Mdungazi , could the Treasury outline its action in this

regard?- ( Mr. Mdungazi ) Thank you Mr. Chairman , all available funds in the Gazankulu Revenue Fund are allocated to the various votes of the Government through the main or the additional appropriation bill , and no funds are kept in reserve . The amounts allocated to various votes in the 1984 Additional Appropriation Act were the maximum available funds which could be allocated .

41.

Mr. Ngobeni ) Mr. Mdungazi , is the bookkeeping system as such that it is possible

to detect excess expenditure at an early stage?- ( Mr. Mdungazi ) yes Mr. Chairman . The ledger , in which accumulated expenditure in the indivudual programmes of a vote are reflected , is supplied monthly to Acccounting Officers .

If this expenditure

projected , the expected savings or excesses are brought to light .

is

- 25-

42 .

Mr. Hlayisi . )

_(Mr. Vukela)

Mr. Vukela , did you take any positive steps to bring about savings?

Mr. Chairman , positive steps were taken to bring about savings by

granting as few as 40 new teaching subsidies instead of at least 385.

This state

of affairs however, has the negative effect of bringing about a teacher pupil ratio which defeats the ends of effective teaching .

Mr. Chairman , the

enrolment

at my schools grew from 161 872 in 1982 to 177 387 in 1983 and the 40 teaching subsidies granted did not match the phenomenal increase of 15 515 in the number of pupils . Further , Mr. Chairman , the vacant posts of Heads of Departments in many of my schools , particularly in the primary schools , were not filled .

MOTOR VEHICLES PURCHASES , PARAGRAPH 18

43.

Mr. Chauke . )

Mr. Vukela , could you please give details of the number of

Government as well as subsidised vehicles allocated to your department?( Mr. Vukela )

Mr. Chairman , for the financial year under review there were 90 government

vehicles , one scooter , and 6 subsidised

vehicles allocated to my department .

As

reported to the 1984 Sessional Committee on Public Accounts , only one subsidised vehicle is in operation at the moment , namely GY 3107 which is used by myself.

In fact ,

Mr. Chairman , this vehicle has also completed its official kilometre lifespan in December 1984 and is being used on an extended service untill its replacement is received .

The other vehicles reached their official kilometre lifespan as

follows : - GY 1976 in may 1983 , GY 2602 and GY 2622 in December 1983 , GY 727 in February 1984 and GY 3109 in March 1984 .

44.

Mr. Chairman . )

department? ·

Mr. Vukela , how are kilometres travelled controlled by your

(Mr. Vukela )

Mr. Chairman , for control purposes we rely

mainly on

the logsheets coupled with the itinerary that covers the trips that have been undertaken , and of course Mr. Chairman , we have also issued circulars as to the specific use and specific care that should be taken over Government vehicles . must also indicate

I

Mr. Chairman , that in the same fashion as the Department of

Works does , we have kilometres

allocated to each and every vehicle and each and

every officer knows how many kilometers he must travel within a month .

Actually

the kilometers are allocated on an annual basis , and then we divide them according to months .

Again Mr. Chairman , we have introduced a system whereby during school

holiday , school inspectors should ground their vehicles .

In the past we used to ask

them to bring their vehicles to head office , but we have realised that this was also contributory to excess kilometers when they drive their vehicles to head office and back .

- 26 -

We decided to make use of a transport officer to go out to the respective circuit offices to make a note of the last reading on the speedo- reading of each car , so that

he knows exactly that on such and such a date when the schools were closed , the

inspector was not active and his vehicle stopped at such and such kilometer reading , sothat on submission of the next logsheets , he should be able to make spot checks to see to it that vehicles were not unofficially used during school holidays .

Mr.

Chairman , as far as subsidised transport is concerned , an additional control measure has been introduced in the form of cash slips .

In this case it is demanded that

cash slips be obtained in respect of the fuel taken .

The name and address of the

garage , the date and the quantity of fuel consumed are checked against the

itinerary ,

the logsheet and the kilometers travelled .

45.

Mr. Mushwana . )

travelled by each

Mr. Vukela , could you please give details of kilometers subsidised vehicle for the year under review?- ( Mr. Vukela . )

Mr. Chairman , the kilometers travelled by each subsidised vehicle for the year under review are as follows : -

GY 727 travelled 27 616 ; GY 1976 travelled 4 322 km ;

GY 2602 travelled 31 152 km ; GY 2622 travelled 42 437 km ; GY 3107 travelled 37 697 km ; and GY 3109 which travelled a total kilometres of 41 507 .

46.

Mr. Mushwana . )

Mr. Vukela , could you please kindly give the names of the officers

allocated with the said subsidised vehicles?- ( Mr. Vukela . )

Mr. Chairman , GY 727 is

allocated to the senior official for administration , that is Mr. Mona ; GY 1976 was allocated to Mr. Nel who was attached to the Agricultural high school ; GY 2602 was allocated to Mr. Nyathi who is the Chief Inspector of schools ; GY 2622 was allocated to Mr. Mageza who was responsible for phsychological tests in all schools under Gazankulu ; GY 3107 has been allocated to the Secretary of Education that is myself; and GY 3109 was allocated to Mr. Nel at the inspectorate division .

BURSARIES, PARAGRAPH 19 ( 1 )

47.

Mr. Ngobeni . )

and students .

Mr. Vukela , I notice that 1172 bursaries were paid to scholars

How many bursaries were awarded to students and are all these

students committed to Gazankulu Government by way of legal agreements?- ( Mr. Vukela ) Mr. Chairman , 759 bursaries were awarded to students and all these students are committed to the Gazankulu Government by way of legal agreements .

- 27 -

48.

Mr. Hlayisi )

Mr. Vukela , are proper records in your department kept of all

bursary holders who are liable to the Government .

(Mr. Vukela )

Mr. Chairman ,

each bursary holder has a file in which his legal agreement and personal records such as progress reports are kept .

Files are also kept in respect of the

payments made in respect of each bursary holder .

49.

Mr. Chauke . )

department

Mr. Vukela , are bursaries allocated on merit only , and do your Mr. Chairman , bursaries

keep an eye on their progress ? ( Mr. Vukela )

are not awarded on merit only .

For instance , all Gazankulu students who enrol at a

college of Education to follow a postmatric teacher's

course qualify for a bursary .

However , to qualify for a University bursary , the candidates are expected to have attained an aggregare D symbol in their matric .

The department keeps an eye on the

bursary holders ' progress by demanding progress reports , half yearly and end of the year results in respect of everyone .

50.

Mr. Chairman . )

Mr. Vukela , I also notice that R1 650 were owing by students

who have not complied with the terms of their agreements . involved?-

(Mr. Vukela )

How many students were

Mr. Chairman , in this regard only two students were involved .

It must be reported that a further R100 has been recovered and the amount owing now stands at Rl 550.

Mr. Chairman , the matter has been followed up with the

Department of Education and Training which employs the now qualified teachers . However , on realising that we employ many more teachers trained by the Department of Education and Training on its own bursaries , we decided that the matter should be left there .

Mr. Chairman , your committee should guide me whether to have

the amount formally written off on Treasury approval , or whether we must regard the teachers as having fulfilled their commitment by teaching under the Department of Education and Training .

Mr. Chairman if I could add on this , every year the

Department of Education and Training send us a list of qualified teachers who were studying under their bursary scheme , and as long as we can identify those teachers and report back to the Department of Education

and Training , and if we indicate that we

have taken them in service , then the Department of Education and Training is satisfied , and no demands are made to refund their bursaries .

I would like this

Committee to help if we could treat our people in the same fashion . Mr. Chairman , I think our government should act like wise . the opinion of my colleques .

(Mr. Mushwana . )

I do not know what is

( Mr. Chairman ) Mr. Mushwana , but here Mr. vukela is

asking the committee to have the involved amount formally written off , or as to whether we regard

the teachers as having fulfilled their commitments when teaching

28 .

under the Department of Education and Training . since

( Mr. Mushwana ) Mr. Chairman ,

my colleques have indicated that they do agree with my opinion , I feel that

we have

to write-off the said amounts with Treasury approval , for the central

government is not claiming anything under us .

from their bursary holders who are working

(Mr. Chairman ) Mr. Mushwana , I am of the opinion that before we decide ,

we should seek the opinion of the Treasury .

51.

Mr. Mushwana . )

the position is?-

Mr. Mdungazi , could you perhaps indicate to the committee what (Mr. Mdungazi )

Mr. Chairman , In view of the fact that the

bursary holders are legally bound , the amount ought to remain outstanding as it is not discharged in terms of the contract entered into .

Treasury will however ,

consider the writting- off if a fully motivated application is submitted to it .

52.

Mr. Mushwana )

Mr. vukela , I just want to know , what steps have been taken to

try and recover the said amount ?-

( Mr. Vukela )

Mr. Chairman , my department

did try to negotiate with the Department of Education and Training to have the said amounts deducted from those teachers ' salaries , but the Department of Education and Training was not willing to help. used to pay on their own .

Initially the said individuals

The only avernue left now , is for us to institute legal

action , but realising that they were rendering the same services under the Department of Education and Training , I wonder if it will be wise to do so . ( Mr. Marais)

Mr. Chairman , there is a big possibility that the said teachers could

be transferred

back to our service in future .

(Mr. Mushwana)

Mr Chairman ,

if it happens that they be transferred back , are we going to ask them to pay still? (Mr. Marais)

Mr. Chairman , once the amount has been written off, we cannot ask them

Obviously

Mr. Chairman , if they are transferred back, they will be

rendering their services . (Mr. Hlayisi )

( Mr. Chairman ) what is the opinion of the members?

Mr. Chairman , I feel that the amount should be written-off since

they are rendering the same services under the Departmet of Education and Training . (Mr. Marais)

53.

I feel that the Treasury should support such an application .

( Mr. Chairman )

We are now through with Vote- 4 Education , if Mr. Vukela is in

a hurry, he is now exampted to go . the end of the whole proceedings .

(Mr. Vukela ) . Mr. Chairman,I will stay until

4

29

REVENUE FUND . PARAGRAPH 5

54.

Mr. Chairman . )

Mr. Mdungazi , I notice that the Revenue Fund reflects a debit

balance of R2 226 593,59.

Does this mean that the Gazankulu Revenue Fund did not have

the necessary funds available to meet the public expenditure at the end of the Financial year . (Mr. Mdungazi )

Could the Treasury please explain the position to the Committee?Mr. Chairman , the weak position of the Revenue Fund is mainly due to

unauthorised expenditure of R9 011 503,89 as reflected on paragraph 4 on page 2 of the Report of the Auditor-General .

I wish to point out that the debit balance of

2,2 million in the Revenue Fund as at 31 March 1984 do not mean that the Government was operating on a bank overdraft .

The Paymaster- General Account reflected a Credit

balance of R1 947 636,01 on the last working day of the year under review .

The Treasury

is however concerned about unauthorised expenditure which is having an adverse effect on the Revenue Fund and accounting officers are once more requested to stay within the limits of their voted funds .

APPROPRIATIONS WITHHELD OR SUSPENDED BY TREASURY- PARAGRAPH 13

55.

Chairman )

According to the Auditor-General's Report R3 147 000 has been

suspended by the Treasury. regard?

(Mr. Mdungazi )

Could the Treasury please outline its policy in this Thank you Mr. Chairman , the police of the Treasury

concerning the suspension of funds is contained in section 8 of the Exchequer and Audit Act , 1975 which states inter alia that an appropriation by an appropriation act shall be construed as merely indicating the maximum amount which may be utilized and the Treasury may limit the credits to the amount which in its opinion will be sufficient for the purpose or service in a particular financial year .

STATE DEBT. PARAGRAPH 6

56.

Mr. Chairman )

Mr. Marais , according to the Report , a total debt at 31 March 1984

amounted to R16 350 000.

Mr. Marais , how many loans were involved?- ( Mr. Marais )

Thank you Mr. Chairman , the total debt of R16 350 000 consists of four loans particulars of which are as follows : - , loan of R3 100 000 raised on the 30th September 1979 bearing an interest rate of 9,65% and its term is 20 years ; loan of R5 000 000 raised on the 30th of September 1981 bearing an interest rate of 13,75 and its term is 20 years ; loan of R3 750 000 raised on the 30th June 1983 bearing an interest rate of 12,75% and its term is 10 years and finally loan of R4 500 000 raised on the

- 30 -

30th June 1983 bearing an interest rate of 13,00% and its term is 20 years , thus bringing the total to R16 350 000 .

57.

(Mr. Ngobeni )

Mr. Marais , is the money provided by these loans fully utilised?

- (Mr. Marais ) Yes Mr. Chairman , the money is fully utilised . 58 .

Mr. Hlayisi . )

Mr. Marais are there any projects for which these loans were acquired

that are still uncompleted ?- ( Mr. Marais )

No Mr. Chairman , all projects for which loans

were raised are completed . GEFTS TO THE GOVERNMENT , PARAGRAPH 9

59.

Mr. Chauke )

Mr. Mdungazi , I notice that several amounts were donated to the Government

for specific purposes .

Could the Treasury please indicate the procedure which is

followed when amounts of this nature are received?- ( Mr. Mdungazi )

Mr. Chairman , the

donations are paid into the Gazankulu Revenue Fund by recipient departments who in turn report to the Treasury for the acceptance thereof .

These donations are made

available to those departments in the additional estimates of expenditure .

OUTSTANDING REVENUE , PARAGRAPH 10 ( 2 ) 60 .

Chairman )

Mr. Marais , what is the nature of the outstanding amount of R177 209?

( Mr. Marais ) Thank you Mr. Chairman , the outstanding amount of consists mainly of outstanding Gazankulu Special Tax .

My Department has R177 209 as from 1984 implemented

a system whereby this tax is deducted from salaries of serving officials .

61.

Chairman )

service .

Mr. Marais , what about the taxpayers outside the employment of Government

Are they not liable to this tax ?- ( Mr. Marais )

Mr. Chairman , as soon as

possible after the end of the financial year , assessments for special tax are issued on the computer .

These assessments are handed over to magistrates for

distribution to individual tax payers .

Thereafter Magistrates arrange tax tours to

enable tax payers to pay their taxes nearer their homes .

Payments are captured on the

computer and as soon as possible after the end of June lists of outstanding taxes are issued to Magistrates for collection through the messenger of the court .

Thank you .

INVESTMENTS , PARAGRAPH 11 62.

Mr. Mushwana . )

Mr. Marais , it is noticed that an amount of R8 232 000 was

temporarily invested with a banking institution .

Could you please inform the

Committee at what rate of interest these investments are made , and are you satisfied that interest is earned at the highest possible rate ?-

(Mr. Marais )

- 31 -

Mr.

Chairman , the closing balance of R8 232 000 was invested in the Call Deposit

Account of the Exchequer Account and earned interest at the rate of 5% per annum for the period .

The amount could not be invested for a long period as it would be needed

as from 1 April 1984 to defray expenditure on the Pay Master General Account .

The

ruling interest rate of 5% at that time is considered fair and reasonable . Mr. Chairman , I may also add that in terms of Section 3 ( 5 ) of the Exchequer and Audit Act , Treasury is required to ensure that there shall at all times be sufficient moneys in the Exchequer Account to meet public expenditure .

It is therefore

not advisable to invest the available moneys in the Exchequer Account for a long period because such moneys may not be available to meet public expenditure should a need arise during the period of investment .

This may be disastrous to Gazankulu

and its people .

63.

Mr. Ngobeni )

R7 000?-

Mr. Marais, could you also give details of the suspension of

( Mr. Marais )

Thank you Mr. Chairman , as you will have noticed from

estimates of revenue from own sources in the printed estimates of revenue and expenditure (the Blue Book ) for the 1983/84 financial year, an amount of R5,1 million was included as revenue from loans .

Treasury informed me that the Gazankulu

Government did not , in the final analysis , approve of the raising of the loan .

As a

result thereof , Mr. Chairman , Treasury had to suspend this amount from the estimates of expenditure of all votes of the Government .

From my vote Mr. Chairman ,

the amount suspended was R7 000 .

64.

Mr. Hlayisi . ) Mr. Marais , what is the purpose of the suspension of R320 000

under Loan funds?-

( Mr. Marais )

As already mentioned

Mr. Chairman , the raising

of a loan of R5,1 million as envisaged , did not materialise and Treasury accordingly suspended a total amount of R5,1 million from the ten votes of the government .

R320 000

budgeted for interest redemption on the envisaged loar

The amount of

and thus

had to be suspended from Vote 10 - Finance ( Loan funds ) , i.e. the funds could no longer be utilised for interest redemption as the loan for which it was budgeted was not raised .

MOTOR VEHICLE- PURCHASES , PARAGRAPH 18 ( 1 )

65.

Mr. Chauke ) Mr. Marais could you please give an indication of Government and

subsidised vehicles allocated to your Department? - ( Mr. Marais )

Mr. Chairman , one

- 32 -

subsidised vehicle and 14 government vehicles including the Minister's vehicle are allocated to my Department at present .

The subsidised vehicle is allocated to me .

A total of 29 104 kilometers was travelled by this subsidised vehicle

during the

year under review .

66.

Mr. Chairman . )

department ?-

Mr. Marais , how is the amount of kilometres controlled by your

( Mr. Marais )

Thank you Mr. Chairman , an officer requiring a

government vehicle for an official trip completes an itenerary recommended by his immediate senior . travelled are indicated .

which must be

In the itinerary , the expected kilometres to be

All iteneraries are approved by myself or one of the three

other most senior officials before the Transport officer can issue a vehicle to an officer .

On completion of the trip , the kilometres travelled are compared

with the expected kilometres .

Any remarkable excess kilometres must be

explained to the satisfaction of the Department , otherwise the cost of the excess kilometres are recovered from the responsible officer in terms of section 34 of the Exchequer and Audit Act 1975. government vehicles .

The officer may further be suspended from driving

- 33 -

APPROPRIATIONS WITHHELD OR SUSPENDED BY THE TREASURY-PARAGRAPH 13

67.

Mr. Chairman )

Brigadier Coetzee , could you indicate to the Committee why the

amount of R180 500 was suspended?- (Brigadier Coetzee ) .

The amount was suspended on

instructions of the Treasury vide their minute F4/2/2 83/84 dated 1983/04/13 .

68.

Mr. Hlayisi )

Could the Treasury perhaps indicate why an amount of R180 500

was suspended?- ( Mr. Mdungazi ) of R5 100 000 was reflected

Thank you Mr. Chairman , as explained before , a loan

in the estimates of expenditure for 1983/84 financial

year but in the final analysis during the course of the financial year the Cabinet suspended the raising of theis loan .

Therefore an amount of R180 500 which was

supposed to be financed from the said loan had to be suspended .

MOTOR VEHICLES- PURCHASES- PARAGRAPH 18 ( 1 ) ( a )

69.

Mr. Chauke )

Brigadier Coetzee , are there any subsidised vehicles allocated

to your Department and if so how many kilometres have been travelled by each during the year under review?allocated to myself.

(Brigadier Coetzee )

There was only one subsidised vehicle

The kilometres travelled during the year under review is 42 916 .

34 -

UNAUTHORISED EXPENDITURE , PARAGRAPH 4

70.

Mr. Chairman . )

Mr. van Dyk , I notice that the vote for Agriculture and Forestry

has been exceeded by R3 134 752,54 . for this?-

Could you please elaborate on the main reasons

( Mr. van Dyk ) Mr. Chairman , the main reasons for the overexpenditure of

R3 134 752,54 by my department during the 1983/84 financial year are as follows : Firstly the severe drought which ravaged

Gazankulu during the period under review

compelled my Department to undertake certain activities to assist our people to overcome the effects of the drought . programme .

Firstly we tried to step up our dam building

The machines involved in dam building were old ,

cuts in our budget

we were unable to replace them .

and

due to previous

The bulldocers, earth removers

and graders are very costly to repair and because they are old they broke down freqently due to the fact that they had to work more intensively .

This caused a large increase

in our maintanance and repair costs as well as in respect of diesel and lubricants . Secondly the boring machine was required to drill many more holes compared to normal times .

This also caused a large increase on maintanance , repairs and fuel costs .

Thirdly the job creation programme which was introduced to assist our people to earn money to purchase food contributed to our overexpenditure .

Fourthly the

lucern

that was purchased to be sold on a subsidised basis to our farmers also contributed to our over expenditure

During the year under review my Department was informed by

Pretoria about the new salary dispensations that were introduced for three groups of workers in labourers .

my Department i.e. our artisans , temporary workers and

My Department was not aware beforhand about the proposed new salary

dispensations and was only informed by Pretoria thereof when they were due to be implemented .

We could therefore not provide adequately for salary increases in our

budget for that year .

These three groups of personnel

form a large component of the

of the Departments ' staff structure and the fact that salary increases of up to 87% were implemented contributed to a large extend to our overexpenditure .

71 .

Mr. Mushwana )

Mr. van Dyk , according to the appropriation account on page 22 of

the Report , your vote has been exceeded by 19,07%. high .

Have you any comments?- ( Mr. van Dyk )

This appears to be extraordinary

Mr. Chairman, I realise that the

percentage of 19,07% by which our vote has been exceeded is extraordinarily high . However the reasons for this state of affairs as explained in my reply to question 1 , that is the activities which my Department undertook to assist our people to overcome the effects of the drought and large salary increases for a big component

- 35 -

of our staff complement were unforseen , and we were therefor not in a position to make adequate provision for this increaed expenditure in our budget .

I can only add ,

Since my assumption

Mr. Chairman, that I realise the seriousness of the situation .

of duties on 1/4/1984 we have done everything possible to cut our expenditure and I trust that there will be a marked improvement for the part year .

72.

Mr. Ngobeni . )

Mr. van Dyk , at what stage during the financial year did you

become aware of the fact that you are going to exceed your Vote , and did you apply for the necessary funds in the additional estimates ?- ( Mr. van Dyk )

Mr. Chairman ,

as early as July 1983 , it was realised that my vote will be exceeded and applications for additional funds were accordingly submitted to the Treasury

but due to the

unavailability of funds only a portion of the requested amount could be allocated to my budget by Treasury and this was not enough to cover our overexpenditure .

73.

Mr. Hlayisi . )

Mr. van Dyk , are records in your Department kept in such a way

that you have full control over expenditure? -

( Mr. van Dyk )

Mr. Chairman , Yes , my

records are kept in such a manner that I can exercise full control over the expenditure . On a monthly basis the financial position of the Department is presented to me with comments .

Besides , I keep commitment Registers which allow me to see at any time ,

whether or not funds allocated are exceeded .

74.

Mr. Chauke . )

Mr. Van Dyk , could you please outline the procedure which is

followed by your Department to bring excess expenditure timeously to your attention?(Mr. van Dyk ) I request

Mr. Chairman , at the end of each month , or when circumstances dictate ,

the financial personnel in my Department to compile the financial

statements from the records they keep , and such statements reveal whether , on a particular allocation , an overexpenditure will occur at the end of the year .

75.

Mr. Chairman . )

Mr. van Dyk , what was the amount that was granted to you in the

additional estimates ?- ( Mr. van Dyk )

Mr. Chairman , the amount that was granted in the

Additional Estimates is R319 100 .

76 .

Mr. Mushwana )

the amount granted

Mr. van Dyk did you draw the Treasury's attention to the fact that may be insufficient ? ( Mr. van Dyk)

Mr. Chairman , Yes, but

because of the economic recession and the drought , Treasury could not grant me more additional funds .

- 36 -

77.

savin

steps to bring about e ? - (Mr. van Dyk )

Mr. van Dyk , did you take any positi v

Mr. Ngobe . ) ni

to stay withi

the limit

of your appro

priat ion Mr. Chairman , Yes we did try to cut expenditure wherever possible and positive steps gs

n

s

were taken to bring about savings .

However, as explained in my reply to question 1, my

Department had to increase its activities to assist our people to overcome the effects of the drought .

We could also not discharge staff members from our service

to bring about savings because due to the drought they would then not have been able to obtain food .

78.

Mr. van Dyk , I also notice from explanations that one of the

Mr. Hlayisi . )

reasons for excess expenditure is due to price escalation on repair costs of machines Are these repairs to machines

and implements .

done departmentally or by private contractors?

Mr. Chairman the minor repairs are done departmentally , but because

- ( Mr . van Dyk)

of shortage of trained personnel and the sophisticated machinery , major repairs are done by private institutions .

79.

Mr. van Dyk are proper records kept of costs involved in the repair

Mr. Chauke )

and maintanance of major equipment and are you satisfied that contractors who are responsible for the maintanance and repair of machines are not taking unnecessary trips? - (Mr . van Dyk )

Mr. Chairman , Proper records are kept for costs in respect of repairs

and maintanance of major equipment , and all attempts are made to reduce the kilometres travelled by contractors by placing major equipment of the same make in one district . Secondly our machines are repaired on request and not by the initiative of the private firms .

80.

Mr. Chairman . )

Mr. van Dyk , according to the Appropriation Account , one of

the main reasons for the excess on programme 2 is the development of the Hlaneki Irrigation Scheme . ( Mr. van Dyk )

Could you please outline the main objectives of the Scheme?-

Mr. Chairman , the following main objectives have been identified for

the development of the said irrigation lands : -

Firstly the optimal cultivation

and

utilisation of the available irrigable land must be implemented as soon as possible to prevent the investment in the scheme being unproductive .

Secondly , the provision

of vegetable garden plots ( 1 /10ha in size ) close to each residential area for the production of food by women and alderly people .

Thirdly , the provision for certain

portions of the irrigable lands to be made available for leasing to private entrepreneurs

from the RSA for farming on a commercial basis .

The purpose of this is

to firstly create job apportunities for the local people ; to obtain capital and to expedite

the land- use development of the scheme ( Private entrepreneurs must finance

- 37 -

their own concerns ) ; to generate income from rental paid ; and

to form Central

Farming Units ( CFU ) which would render ploughing services, technical assistance and marketing facilities to the surrounding Gazankulu farmers .

The establishment of

Gazankulu farmers on economic units of approximately 5ha each .

MOTOR VEHICLES - PURCHASES , PAGRAPH 18 ( 1 ) ( a )

81.

Mr. Mushwana . )

Mr. van Dyk , how many Government and subsidised vehicles are

allocated to your Department? - (Mr. van Dyk )

Mr. Chairman , the number of government

vehicles allocated to my department is 124 ; and the number of subsidised vehicles allocated to the department is 31 .

82.

Mr. Ngobeni . )

Mr. van Dyk , how are the kilometres travelled controlled by your

Department ?- ( Mr. van Dyk )

Mr. Chairman the logsheets of each government vehicle

( subsidised vehicles included ) are carefully checked every month to ensure that the monthly quota for each vehicle is not exceeded without permission , and also to ensure that

vehicles are used solely for official purposes .

Logsheets are kept and are checked

by a competent official to ensure that the above measure is implemented .

Trip plans

are submitted to division heads for their recommendation before they are submitted for approval to ensure

that each official trip undertaken is essential .

Wherever possible , efforts are made to co- ordinate trips of officers

visiting the

same place to avoid a situation where two or more vehicles in stead of one are used to visit the same place .

When occasion demands , circular letters are issued to enforce

strict adherence to above control measures .

Officials who contravene these measures

are acted against .

83.

Mr. Hlayisi )

Mr. van Dyk , could you please furnish details of the kilometres

covered by each subsidised vehicle for the year under review ?- ( Mr. van Dyk ) Mr. Cahirman details of the kilometres covered by each subsidised vehicle for the year under review are as tabulated hereunder .

Subsidised vehicle

Official kilomneters travelled from 1985-03-31

1.

GY 45

6923

2.

GY 167

7573

3.

GY 1918

30073

4.

GY 2223

6052

1984-04-01 to

- 38 -

Subsidised Vehicle

Official kilometers travelled from 1984-04-01 to 1985-03-31

15 .

GY 2256

4866

6.

GY 2557

4115

GY 2859

7893

8.

GY 3047

17935

9.

GY 3053

18376

10.

GY 3128

29693

11 .

GY 3132

24365

12 .

GY 3334

28075

13.

GY 3168

27742

14 .

GY 3155

29594

15 .

GY 3249

27243

16 .

GY 3255

23817

17.

GY 3295

27569

18 .

GY 3341

26873

19.

GY 3343

25375

20.

GY 3674

18481

21 .

GY 3990

24862

22 .

GY 818

4807

23.

GY 1988

21060

24.

GH 2502

31552

25 .

GH 2544

28835

26 .

GR 10

8205

27.

GR 1000

26338

28 .

GR 1600

26446

29.

GM 89

7154

30.

GM 106

9222

31 .

GM 395

6554

84.

Mr. Chairman )

Mr. van Dyk , this committee feels that as you have submitted a full

list of vehicles with kilometres travelled , you may only give explanations of the vehicles which have travelled excessive kilometres .

( Mr. van Dyk )

Mr. Chairman , I will

only indicate those vehicles which have travelled more than 25 000 kilometres per year . Firstly there is GY 1918 which has travelled 30073 kilometres .

This vehicle

has been

allocated to Mr. Fassen who is in charge of the dam building teams throughout Gazankulu ; and then GY 3128 which has travelled 29693 kilometres which has been

- 39 -

allocated to Mr. Mabele who is in charge of the Ritavi district . frequently to all areas of the distric . which has been allocated to Mr. van Ryn .

He had to travel

GY 3334 which has travelled 28075 kilometres He is responsible for water supply in Giyani

district which is a big area and he must frequently travel to all areas in the district ; GY 3168 which has travelled 27742 kilometres .

This vehicle is allocated to

Mr. Mathye who is in charge of the Homu Irrigation scheme and also at Hlaniki and he must frequently travel to Pietersburg and Tzaneen when the machines do breakdown to go and request various quotations for repairs ; GY 3155 which has travelled 29594 kilometres and is allocated to Mr. Sebele the Senior Animal Health Inspector Stationed at Giyani .

This officer is responsible for the control of all the

redlines and he also had to travel quite a lot .

OGY 3249 which has travelled 27243

kilometres which is allocated to Mr. Nkuna who is a Senior Foreman responsible for the supervision of the dam building units and also had to travel all around Gazankulu . GY 3255 which has done 24000 km approcimately which is allocated Mr. Machaba who is a special grade Chief Agricultural Officer with us in charge of all the districts ' staff.

He must also travel extensively throughout Gazankulu .

GY 3295 which is

allocated to Mr. van der Merwe which has travelled 27569 kilometres and he is also in charge of various activities

in all the

districts .

GY 3341 which

has travelled

26873 kilometres , is allocated to Mr. Purchase who is Chief Animal Health Inspector and he also must travel to all the districts throughout Gazankulu ; GY 3343 which is allocated to Mr. Lamula the Senior Stock inspector

and who is responsible for the

injection of dogs against Rabbis in the four districts of Gazankulu ; travelled 25375 kilometres ; GR 100 which has travelled 26338 kilometres which is allocated to Mr. Bakkel who is in charge of the workshop in the Ritavi district who has to attend to all the repairs in

the various points of the district ; and GR 1600 which has

travelled 26446 kilometres and is allocated Mr. Rothman who is also stationed in the Ritavi district and because of his duties he must travel to all the various points in the district .

( Mr. Hlayisi ) Mr. van Dyk , what about GH 2544? - ( Mr. van Dyk )

Mr. Chairman GH 2544 is allocated to Mr. Z.B. Muhlaba who is second in charge in the Mhala district office and due to his duties he has to travel to all the various points in the district to visits projects to ensure a smooth running of the administration in the district .

AGRICULTURAL PROJECTS , PARAGRAPH 21

85.

Mr. Chauke )

you please

Mr. van Dyk , losses were incurred on most of these projects .

Could

give an indication of the main factors which contributed to these

losses ? -( Mr . van Dyk )

Mr. Chairman , the main reasons for these losses were

as follows : -

- 40 -

Firstly drought was an important factor which contributed to losses .

This caused

lower income figure due to poorer yields and a lower quality of the crops . the method of profit /loss calculation .

Secondly

Large portions of some of our orchards and

plantations have been replanted and are not yet bearing fruit .

The fact that income

is only derived from a portion of such orchards and the expenses for the whole orchard including the non- bearing portions were taken into consideration , resulted into the losses that were reflected .

Lastly in the case of Sisal the prices were low due to the

economic recession which resulted in the loss suffered .

86 .

Mr. Chairman . )

Mr. van Dyk , are you satisfied that accounting records are kept

in respect of all project? - (Mr. van Dyk ) in all projects .

Mr. Chairman , Accounting records are kept

Presently every effort is being made to bring about improvements in

the manner of keeping those records .

87.

Mr. Mushwana . )

Mr. van Dyk , do you also keep records of production particulars of

a project? - ( Mr. van Dyk )

Mr. Chairman , Yes , the production records are kept in all

projects and these records are being improved .

88.

Mr. Ngobeni . )

Mr. van Dyk , are these projects properly planned ?-

Mr. Chairman , the agricultural projects are properly planned .

( Mr. van Dyk )

Before a new project is

started , soil surveys are carried out to determine to suitability of the soil of the areas under consideration for various cropls .

In the case of irrigation projects

a suitable source of water is determined beforehand or otherwise a dam is planned and constructed .

Before the project is implemented the provision of seeds fertilizers and

other inputs and of ploughing and marketing services are also planned .

89.

Mr. Hlayisi . )

Mr. van Dyk were there any surplus products on particualr

projects which could not be disposed to sell all our sisal .

of ? - ( Mr. van Dyk)

Mr. Chairman , we were unable

The sale of sisal is dependent on quotas allocated to the

Department by the National Sisal Marketing Comittee in Pietersmaritzburg .

Due to the

economic ressession the quotas allocated to the Department were less than the quantity of sisal produced .

90.

Mr. Chauke )

Mr. van Dyk , I also notice from the footnote of the statement that

projects in respect of Paprika and cotton have been ceased during the year . please give reasons for this ? - ( Mr. van Dyk )

Could you

Mr. Chairman , because of the persistent

drought during the period under review the Department decided to discontinue these projects .

ཟ

- 41 -

IRREGULARIJTIES AND LOSSES , PARAGRAPH 21 ( 1 )

91.

Mr. Chairman )

Mr. van Dyk , could you please elaborate on the theft of the

theft of the Government cheque of R28 275,87 ? - ( Mr. van Dyk )

Mr. Chairman , the cheque

for R28 275,87 was stolen by one of the officials in my Department .

This officer together

with another one from the Department of Works and another person from the private sector took the cheque and deposited it at Standard Bank in Pietersburg . three people acted as directors of " Meijers Electrical Partnership " . later apprehended by Police and brought before

These

However they were

the court of law , which found

them guilty and they were sentenced as follws : -

D.M. Hlungwani , a fine of R1000

(one thousand rand ) was imposed on him with an alternative sentence of 12 months . He was further served with a sentence of three years .

P. Shibambu , a fine of R5000

with an alternative sentence of 5 ( five ) years imprisonment , George Ngobeni , a fine of R2000 with an alternative sentence of 2 ( two ) years imprisonment .

The three persons

were in addition to the abovementioned fines , ordered to refund the stolen money . There is presently , correspondence

underway between the Department of Agriculture

and Forestry and Department of Justice

in connection with the possibility of holding

Standard Bank responsible to refund the full amount because the cheque deposited was crossed .

92.

Mr. Mushwana . )

different accidents .

Mr. van Dyk , I also notice that two tractors were involved in two Could you please give more details ?

( Mr. van Dyk ) Two

Mr. Chairman , the details of the one accident referred to are as follows : -

employees of the department (one an operator of a grader MTR 75102 , and the other a casual labourer ) washed the grader ( MTR 75102 ) in a dam . into the dam , where it got stuck in the mud .

The grader was driven

With the help of a grader from the

Department of Works the machines was towed out of the dam the engine of the grader was emersed mixed

with the engine oil .

next day .

As the

in the water, the water entered the engine and was

Consequently , the engine ceased and had to be overhauled .

The repair costs amounted to R11 151,15 .

This amount could however , not be recovered

from these two employees because of their law monthly salaries . was therefore sought for the writing of the amount . dated 1980-03-24 has reference .

Treasury approval

Treasury approval no . 9/6/1

Details of the second accident are as follows : -

The tractor GAZ 5-1463 overturned whilst it was driven by its driver on an unauthorised trip .

The damage caused to this tractor amounted to R3 400.

was arrested and charged for reckless and negligent driving .

The driver

- 42 -

He appered

before a court of law and was found guilty on both charges .

R180 was imposed on him and his licence was suspended for 6 months .

A fine of

He paid the fine ,

and the department recommended that he be held responsible for R1 000 as his monthly salary is low .

Treasury appjroval F9 /6 /1 dated 1981-12-04 was obtained to this effect .

The amount of R1 000 is being recovered from the driver concerned at a rate of R20-00 per month .

( Mr. Chairman ) I think we are through with vote 5 , the Department

of Agriculture and Forestry, I wonder if there is any member who would like to comment before we get to vote 1 the Department of Chief Minister & Economic Affairs

(Mr. Mushwana ) Excuse me ,

my

the theft of R28 275,87 .

comment on the Department of Agriculture , in connection with Mr. van Dyk if the Standard Bank does not pay that amount

as you are most likely going to claim this amount from the Standard Bank because the cheque was crossed , if the Standard Bank does not pay is there a possibility that this amount can be recovered from the personel

involved ? -

( Mr. van Dyk )

Mr. Chairman Yes ,

as indicated in my reply that part of the sentence included that they were ordered to refund the stolen money and if Justice succeeds to recover the amount from the Standard Bank they will only be permitted to pay the required fines but if Justice fails to money .

recover the money from Standard Bank they will also be ordered to refund the (Mr. Mushwana )

I will also like to be clarified as to the circumstances

leading to this type of theft ; How did they get hold of that cheque , what happened in the first place or what was your control in this aspect ? - ( Mr . van Dyk ) Mr. Chairman , this happened before my time but none the less the way I understand it is that this Meijers Electrical Construction did some work for the Department, so they submitted an invoice to the Department which was then presented to the Department of Finance

for the issue of a computer printed cheque but these people

arrived at our office on Friday morning and said they have workers whom they must pay immediately, so they asked for a handwritten cheque .

The accounts section of my

Department arranged that a handwritten cheque be issued to them to enable them to pay their labourers , but in the mean time arrangements had already been made computer written cheque .

to issue a

It was decided that when the computer written cheque is

received it will be cancelled .

But when the cheque came out instead of cancelling it ,

they took it and deposited it at Standard Bank in Pietersburg .

(Mr. Mushwana )

Mr. van Dyk , according to your explanation , it seems we also slipped somewhere , by issuing a handwritten cheque and then a computer written

cheque again . ( Mr. van Dyk )

Mr. Chairman , it is not against regulations to issue a handwritten cheque for urgent matters but what went wrong was that when a computerised

cheque was received it should

have been cancelled , but the person who was responsible for cancelling cheques saw his chance and took the cheque together with his colleques and they deposited it in Pietersburg .

- 43 -

UNAUTHORISED EXPENDITURE , PARAGRAPH 4 ( 3 )

93 .

Mr. Chairman . )

by R2 257 528,51 .

Dr. Robert , I notice from the Report that your Vote was exceeded Could you please elaborate on the main reasons for this ? - ( Dr . Robert )

Mr. Chairman , the excess noted is due mainly to salary adjustments for proffessional and technical personnel according to the specific dispensation which took effect during the course of the financial year under review .

Mr. Chairman allow me also to mention

that the S.A. Nursing Council at its meeting held during September 1982 , discussed and approved the introduction of a four year course in nursing science which would eventually replace the existing three and a half year basic course .

The council stated

in its approval that each national state should establish its own nurses college in order to make training in the new system possible .

It was stipulated among others ,

that failure to comply with the requirement training of nurses would be terminated in the hospitals .

The Cabinet on the recommendations of my Department granted approval

for the establishment of a college in Giyani .

You will realise Mr. Chairman , that my

Department had no alternative , but to establish the college though no provision had been made for it .

Failure to comply with the requirement would have had an adverse

effect on the Health Services throughout Gazankulu .

Mr. Chairman , in January 1984 all

officers and employees of my Department received a 12% increase on their salaries . This general increase together with salary adjustments for professional and technical personnel mentioned before contributed greatly towards the excess .

Mr. Chairman , allow

me to elaborate a little more on this , when we realised that we were overspending and when I was not satisfied with the answers I was given , I ordered and instructed two of my officers to go and visit each hospital to find out why there was such overspending especially on salaries .

You will notice that in our budget out of R2 257 000 excess

about half of that amount was on salaries alone which I could not accept myself .

The

explanation that I'm giving you is correct but in addition I found out that many posts at Nkhensani Hospital had been created , the people had been appointed , some of them a few years before 1978 but the posts were not budgeted for . strange .

This was something extremely

For an example , on the two papers that I submitted to the Treasury it was

noted that at Nkhensani Hospital we had 273 posts budgeted for , while the number of approved posts was 395.

Mr. Chairman , you can imagine the difference , that

one explain

why at Nkhensani Hospital there was an overspending on salaries of over a million rand . Now the matter has since been rectified .

Mr.Chairman , allow me to mention once more

that the outbreak of poliomylitis , which I reported to this Committee in the previous meeting , left quite a number of children handicapped .

My Department through the Welfare

Services Branch , assessed the needs of the handicapped and thereafter purchased the necessary orthopaedic equipment for these children in order to assist them back to lead a normal life .

You will realise Mr. Chairman , that , the equipment is only available

from specialists and my Department has no facilities to render such services . children are sent to the orthopaedic workshop in Pietersburg .

The

44 -

Apart from this Mr. Chairman , my Department had to purchase more vaccines to innoculate children against this disease throughout Gazankulu .

The Nursing Personnel

attached to Head Office had to visit the different Health Wards from time to time to

assist

the personnel in the wards in orientating the communities to follow

and adhere to immunisation programmes .

Mr. Chairman , the increase in the number

of in and out patients in our hospitals has resulted in more medicines being bought . Allow me also to mention that my Department tries to stay within the limit of funds allocated for medicine , but this increased inflow of patients makes it impossible for my Department to limit the purchase of medicines which are absolutely necessary . Mr. Chairman , allow me to mention that patients are from time to time transferred to hospitals beyond the borders of Gazankulu .

These trips cannot be limited since

the patients had to be treated by Specialists .

In view of this fact coupled with

the increase in tarrifs for motor transport were adversely affected .

You will realise

Mr. Chairman , that my Department tries to stay within the limit of the vote , but as costs in transport , medicines etc. increase , as well as the number of patients who come to the hospitals for treatment , essential services would not be suspended due to lack of funds .

So just to summarise this , after the total excess of unauthorised expenditure

of over two million , half or more of it was spent on staff which were already there . I did not appoint addditional staff , this must be made quite clear .

This was the staff

that was appointed long before .

94.

Mr. Mushwana )

Dr. Robert , from page 27 of the Report , it appears that the

excess on your vote is more than 12% which is also regarded as exceptionally high . Did you apply for the necessary funds timeously? - ( Dr. Robert )

Mr. Chairman , I

realised that the salary adjustments for proffessional and technical personnel compled with the 12% general increase would have an adverse effect on the Vote .

You

must remember that the Department of Health employs a lot of professionals much more than any other Department , and with the new dispensation , the salary was in some intances increased very very much . taken into account .

The inauguration of the nurses college in Giyani was also

I calculated the additional expenditure involved and sumbmitted

an application for additional funds to the Treasury .

The Treasury could not allocate

the funds applied for due to the economic conditions of the Gazankulu Revenue fund at the time .

You will realise from the above , Mr. Chairman , that I anticipated an

excess on the vote and applied for the necessary funds timeously to defray the anticipated excess .

95.

Mr. Ngobeni )

Dr. Robert , are records in your Department kept in such a way that

it is possible to detect overexpenditure at an early stage ? - ( Dr. Robert ) Yes ,

- 45 -

Mr. Chairman , Commitment Registers for each branch under different programmes are being kept and maintained .

The Registers have been allocated columns in which

the amounts committed and the balances under each allocation are indicated .

The

registers have been arreanged in such a manner that it is possible to detect an excess at an early stage .

It may also interest you that we do that exercise montlhly or

bi -monthly and we notify the hospitals and comment on the way they handle and spend

their money.

96.

Mr. Hlayisi . )

- ( Dr . Robert )

Dr. Robert , did you take any positive steps to bring about savings?

Yes , Mr. Chairman I realised that the hospitals used to purchase

equipment which were not absolutely necessary and without which the hospital could execute their normal daily duties .

In order to eliminate such unnecessary

expenditure , the economy committees were introduced in each hospital as well as Head Office .

These committees contributed enormously to an extent that savings can be future .

anticipated in the

As mentioned in my answer to question 1 , the salary

adjustment which took effect during activation of the Nurses College made

the course of the year coupled with the it difficult

if not impossible to bring about

savings .

OUTSTANDING REVENUE , PARAGRAPH 10 ( 2 )

97.

Mr. Chauke . )

Dr. Robert , what is the nature , of the outstnaing amount of

R31 102 ?- ( Dr. Robert )

Mr. Chairman , the outstanding revenue of R31 102 is made up

not all but mostly of workman's compensation fees , in and out patient fees as well in all the hospitals .

That is why I say that a large part is attributable to W.C.A. cases

Mr. Chairman , allow me to stress the fact that it was my wish that all outstanding revenue , more especially W.C.A. cases , be recovered before the end of the financial year but the channels through which these cased go before payment is received , are rather lengthy .

An admission form and an Employer's

Report is completed and a copy

thereof be kept in the patient's bed letter whilst the employer retain the original which the latter refers to the Workmen's compensation Commissioner .

There are

are several reports e.g. Progress/final Medical Report , and at last a Resumption Report and further something that is not indicated there , many employees come from white farms and it is sometimes extremely difficult especially in the Ritavi area and Acornhoek area to follow the cases and go to the farmers . is extremely difficult .

We try to do so but it

As you know state employees in Gazankulu are covered by

various Departments which employ them , but W.C.A. cases refer mostly to workers

R

-- 46 -

residing outside the boundaries of Gazankulu , and the reason for the delay in recovering

their hospitalization monies is due to the fact that it is not

easy for us to claim from people living outside of our boundaries . we do try our outmost best to have the money cases .

Mr. Chairman

recovered and we do succeed in some

The workmen's compensation commissioner after having received

necessary reports , assesses the case and pays the

hospital fees .

all the

You will realise

Mr. Chairman , that the channels indicated above makes it impossible for my Department to recover this revenue in good time , but I can assure you about that amount of R31 102 which has been mentioned above , that same part already been recovered the exact figure .

of it has

although I am not in a position to mention at the present moment

Mr. Chairman , I wish to report to the committee that the

suggestions laid down by the Department of Finance through their inspection reports made it possible for my department to recover the part of the outstanding revenue . Mr. Chairman , another difficulty which we encounter in border hospitals such as Elim which is adjecent to Venda is that when Venda patients come to the hospital they are treated like any other patients , but when it comes to the collection of the outstanding

fees it becomes extremly difficult .

Though we feel that we cannot refuse

to treat a patient because he had a debt if he is serious enough we have to treat him because we are under moral obligations to treat him or her .

To recover such debts

from people living in Gazankulu is relatively easy , but to recover from people outside the borders is extremely difficult .

For an example , the people from

Lebowa in the case of Shiluvani hospital and Tintswalo hospital , and the people from Venda in the case of Elim hospital and to a lesser extent Malamulele hospital is not easy to recover their debts .

( Mr. Mushwana ) , Dr. Robert , is it not possible

that some arrangement could be made with the hospitals outside our boarders . think you are in the same proffession and that you are all affiliated

I

to the South .

African Medical Association , because I think it is a step that could help all the hospitals both in Gazankulu and the neighbouring homelands . Mr. Chairman , may I make a suggestion .

(Mr. Matthews )

I feel that our Department of Health

should try and negotiate with the Governments of Venda and Lebowa in an endeavour to recover these monies , and vise versa since some of our patients are admitted in their hospitals . ( Mr. Mushwana ) ( Dr. Robert )

Mr. Chairman , I do agree with Mr. Matthews .

Mr. Chairman , we will try , but I do not know if the Treasury

has any comment in this regard .

( Mr. Marais )

Dr. Robert , you are a member of the

South African Medical Council , perhaps that could be an avenue of negotiation .

- 47 .

(Dr. Robert )

Mr. Chairman , the recovery of debts is not necessarily the function of

the department of Health and Welfare , it should be channeled through the Department of Justice .

(Mr. Matthews )

Mr. Chairman , Dr. Robert had to give the Department

of Justice the necessary information sothat they will be able to proceed with the necessary legal proceedings .

( Dr. Robert )

Mr. Chairman , I wonder if it would

not be worth while to discuss that matter with our Department of Justice and see what could be done. principle.

The amounts outstanding are not large amounts , but it is the

( Mr. Matthews) (Mr. Matthews )

Dr. Robert , is it not possible to hold the

patients

until they have paid , or make them pay before they are admitted if they are coming from another national state? For I understand the situation , even myself if ever I be treated before I pay , once I can go back to Venda , I would not pay again . ( Mr. Mushwana)

Mr. Chairman , is it not going to cost the Government more money if they

keep that patient in the hospital , because that hospital has to feed him and and has to give him shelter? ( Mr. Matthews )

Mr. Chairman , It is going to cost

US

more money , yes , but even if we cannot collect the outstanding funds , it is costing us more money, I would like to suggest that aforeigner should be made to pay in advance. (Dr. Robert ) Mr. Chairman , I think that could help.

(Mr. Matthews )

Mr. Chairman ,

unless it is a person who has nothing then he can be treated as a pauper .

MOTOR VEHICLES , PARAGRAPH 18

98.

Mr. Chairman . )

Dr. Robert , how many official and subsidised vehicles are

allocated to your department?- ( Dr. Robert )

Mr. Chairman , 170 official and

eight subsidised vehicles were allocated to my department .

99.

Mr. Mushwana . )

Dr. Robert , how are kilometres travelled controlled by your

department?- (Dr. Robert )

Mr. Chairman , the kilometres travelled by both the

official and subsidised vehicles allocated to my department are strictly controlled . To substantiate the above statement , Mr. Chairman , the following control measures are implemented before official trips are under-taken : -

Itineraries for official

trips by subsidised vehicles are approved by me and my two assistant secretaries only.

This is made possible because our subsidised vehicles are confined to head

office personnel .

As far as the other vehicles at Head office are concerned , the

approval for local official trips has been delegated to heads of divisions or sections with the minimum rank of Administration officer and equivalent , whilst official trips to the hospitals in the various districts as well as to areas outside Gazankulu are approved by me and my two assistant secretaries .

- 48 -

At the hospitals , where we have the bulk of our vehicles , only the superintendent and the hospital secretary may approve official trips .

You will realise from the above

Mr. Chairman , that the kilometres travelled are strictly controlled .

Mr. Chairman ,

may I just add something which is of interest because since the year under review things have

changed dramatically .

We have come to limit the number of kilometres

of subsidised vehicles depending on the official to 1500 kilometer per month to ordinary officials and those who should do a lot of travelling to 2 000 kilometres per month over a period of eleven months because usually officers do take one month ' S

leave every year.

So this imply that the kilometres travelled should not exceed

an average of 22 000 kilometres a year . a question?

(Mr. Matthews )

Mr. Chairman , may I ask

Have Dr. Robert checked the number of kilometres travelled by these

officers who now owns subsidised vehicles against those which the officer used to travel when he was using an official vehicle , because to limit the man to 1000 kilometres and not enabling him to do his work is just as bad as allowing him to over travel?

I did a check with mine , and I discovered for an example that , since

I was allocated with a subsidised vehicle , I am travelling less kilometres than when I was using an official vehicle .

Mr. Chairman , fine I am able to fit it in , but

we also have limited the kilometres to be travelled by subsdidised vehicle .

I dont

know if they are effective , as they were when they were using official vehicles and doing more kilometres .

This is an interesting point Mr. Chairman .

(Dr. Robert )

Mr. Chairman , I may answer just partly , we have not done a full investigation but the officers who are affected by these measures are working as hard with much enthusiasm as before , and I may say effectively . exceed the allowed kilometres but

Sometimes it happens that officers

they usually make for the excess by reducing

the kilometres of the following month , so that all in all they do not exceed an average of 1500 or 2000 kilometres depending on the officer .

( Mr. Mushwana . )

Dr. Robert , there is something I wish to ask , but I think I should have asked the Department of Works this question .

You know we have got a tendency, of when two

people are having subsidised vehicles , they are both going to Mhala , instead of using one vehicle , you find that each one is driving in his vehicle , is this also happening in your department ? I know.

- ( Dr . Robert )

Mr. Chairman , that is not happening as far as

If you do find an instance , please do bring that to my attention , because

normally that cannot occur .

(Mr. Matthews)

Mr. Chairman , may I just add on that ,

because I know I may also be asked the same question .

Normally what happens is that

you organise a trip to Mhala to go and work for some few days, another officer in one vehicle , you got problems .

If you go with

For an example , let us say I and

Mr. Marais organise a trip to Mhala , it always happen that I may need three or more days to do my work , whilst his work is only sufficient for one day , so he cannot stay

do

- 49-

there for three days waiting for me whilst he has nothing to do .

The case which

Mr. Mushwana had just asked do happen , but not in an endeavour to add kilometres on your vehicle but due to the nature of work one has to do .

100.

Mr. Ngobeni . )

Dr. Robert , could you please indicate the amount of kilometres

travelled by each subsidised vehicle?- (Dr. Robert )

Mr. Chairman , the amount of

kilometres travelled by each of the eight subsidised vehicles allocated to my Department during the year under review are as follows : -

GY 3771 which has travelled

3287 kilometres belongs to me , and it will not give you a true indication of the kilometres I had to travel a year , because I had just received the vehicle towards the end of the year under review .

Usually I travel 40 000 kilometres per year .

I wish to point out that since the year under review , all the vehicles which I will outline to you have since been abolished .

Except GY 3170 which belongs to

Mrs. Muthebule which has as yet not completed its kilometer life time it had travelled 23288 kilometres . health educator .

and during that

GY 3054 is allocated to Mr. Chauke who is a

The vehicle had travelled 39 244 kilometres .

He is in charge of the

promotion of health education in the whole of Gazankulu , visiting clinics and he is our contact man with Radio Tsonga .

all schools and

GY 1688 was allocated to

His

Mr. Nghatsane who was one of our welfare officers had travelled 2299 kilometres . kilometres are atributable to the fact that during the year under review he left for the United States for studies . allocated to Mr. Maswanganyi ;

GY 2404 which has travelled 28797 kilometres was

GY 2630 was allocated to Mr. Miyeni and it has travelled

35986 kilometres ; GH 1004 was allocated to Mr. Mathumbu and it had travelled 23 800 kilometres and GH 2488 was allocated to Dr. Stephenson and had travelled 28 294 kilometres .

The above officers are health Inspectors and had to travel

extensively , sometimes they had to do malaria control .

I am not satisfied with

the amount of kilometres travelled by Dr. Stephenson at Tintswalo hospital , but as you will realise , it is extremely difficult for me to control the number

of

kilometres for an officer who is situated very far from head office , because he hardly comes to head office and he travels in the Mhala area .

I could not do

anything because that is a situation which I found when I came into office and I would never have recommended that he be given a subsidised vehicle .

(Mr. Matthews)

Mr. Chairman , just to bring you into the picture , we handled the case of Dr. Stephenson . As a chairman of the Committee which handles applications for the allocation of subsidised vehicles , I remember that we did turn down his application , but he appealed to the higher authorities who instructed us to give him one .

Mr. Chairman ,

I wish to point out that after the said vehicle had completed its kilometre life , Dr. Stephenson applied for a replacement and his application was turned does not have a subsidised vehicle anymore .

down .

He

- 50 -

101.

Mr. Chauke . )

Dr. Robert , did your department receive any donations in a form

of medicenes or money, if 80 , how do you account for them? ( Dr. Robert . ) Mr. Chairman , we do receive donations in the form of money . page 4 of the Auditor

General's Report .

I wish to refer you to

There was an amount which we received for

dental equipment of about R36 729,00 .

Those of you who will be visiting Tintswelo

hospital may visit the dental clinic .

I think it is the only most equiped dental

clinic in the whole of Gazankulu and it is very modern . purchased out of the donations . Tintswalo hospital .

The said equipments were

And there is a mobile clinic which was purchased for

It is a converted microbus which is fully equipled to be a self

surporting small clinic .

APPROPRIATIONS WITHHELD OR SUSPENDED BY TREASURY , PARAGRAPH 13 .

102.

Mr. Chairman . )

According to the Auditor - general's Report , R3 147 000 has been

suspended by the Treasury . regard?

( Mr. Mdungazi )

Could the Treasury please outline its policy in this

Mr. Chairman , the policy of the Treasury in connection with

suspensions is contained in section eight of the Exchequer and Audit Act , 1975 (Act No. 66 of 1975 ) which inter alia mentions that an amount appropriated by an appropriation act shall be construed as indicating the maximum amount that can be utilised and that Treasury may limit credits to a Vote if in its opinion a lesser amount will be sufficient for the services budgeted for.

103.

Mr. Chairman . )

Mr. Matthews , could you please elaborate on the suspension of

the amount of R150 000 ( Mr. Matthews)

Mr. Chairman , there was a shortage of funds

in Exchequer Account and the Treasury informed us that we had to suspend an amount of R150 000 from our budget

in an endeavour to make out for the shortage after the

budget had been approved by the Parliament .

Each Department was asked

to reduce

certain amount for the approved budget was cut by R3 147 000 and my Department had to suspend R150 000 .

BURSARIES , PARAGRAPH 16 .

104.

Mr. Mushwana . )

Mr. Matthews , I notice that 376 bursaries were paid to students .

Are these bursaries awarded to everyone who makes application or to deserving cases only?-

( Mr. Matthews )

Mr. Chairman , we could not give bursaries to everyone

applied , because we had many applications .

who

Each and every application is considered

on merit , not only deserving applications , but if the student is having a capability of making a success of his studies , that is , we take a look of each student matric results , thereafter we decide who must be awarded a bursary basing our selection on the results .

105.

Mr. Ngobeni . )

Mr. Matthews , are you satisfied that strict control is exercised

over the allocation of bursaries , for an example , if a student fails in his examination , is he given a second chance ?- ( Mr. Matthews ) control is being excercised on the allocation of bursaries .

Mr. Chairman , a strict

If a student fails , he

must repeat and pay for the expenses himself , and if he then passes , the bursary is reinstated .

In other words I may say that if he fails he rewrite the failed

subjects at his own expense , and after he had passed those subjects we reinstate his bursary award .

- 52 -

APPROPRIATION ACCOUNT

106.

Mr. Hlayisi . )

Mr. Matthews , I note that the savings of more than R2 million

under related services is due mainly to projects which could not be completed .

Could

you please give more details of the projects as well as the reasons why these projects could not be completed?- ( Mr. Matthes )

Mr. Chairman , the saving is due

mainly to projects which could not be completed during the year as well as posts for qualified staff which could not be filled .

For an example , the big Youth

Movement project which we were waiting for the farm Belasting to be transferred to us, and it has since been transferred during the latter part of last year . we could not start with the building of the camp .

Due to that

There were also various youth centers

in the various districts which we could not complete because we did not have sites , but I wish to point out that the sites have since been allocated to us by the Department of Interior .

At the present moment we are only waiting on the Tender Board

to approve the tenders for building these centres .

Mr. Chairman the above indicate

why the qualified staff who were supposed to run the centres could not be appointed and thus resulting in a saving .

MOTOR VEHICLES , PARAGRAPH 18 ( 1 )

107.

Mr. Chauke )

Mr. Matthews , I notice that 147 new vehicles were purchased during

the year under review , how many Government vehicles and subsidised vehicles are allocated to your department ?-

( Mr. Matthews )

Mr. Chairman , we have 45 government

vehicles and twelve subsidised vehicles allocated to my department .

Could I also

add Mr. Chairman , that these vehicles were inadequate for the running of a department , because the Fauna and Flora Division at that stage had only one vehicle , Youth Action had two vehicles and the Information division had no sufficient vehicles .

108.

Mr. Chairman )

controlled .

Mr. Matthews , how are kilometres travelled by your department

That is for subsidised as well as for official transport?-

(Mr. Matthews)

Mr. Chairman , kilometres travelled are being controlled by means

of itineraries and log books , but I would like to expand that answer . are drawn up and approved by myself or Mr. Phakula .

All itineraries

The logbooks are produced , but

we do have problems , as I think every department have problems concerning official transport . these trips .

I wish to asure you that everything in our power is done to control For an example , if we discover that an official has exceeded the

kilometres allocated to him , we make him pay for the excess kilometres .

We have a

- 53 -

number of officials who had to pay for the excess kilometres .

While we are talking

about official transport although the question was not asked Mr. Chairman , I would like to indicate that I am also perturbed by the number of accidents that are still taking place , they dont take place when we have or use subsidised cars .

If an accident

take place with a subsidised car it costs the government nothing because the vehicle is insured .

It is costing us two million or more per year by not using subsidised

cars by running official transport . of our question , I just

But what I have indicated is outside the scope

wanted to bring this Sessional Committee on the picture .

We

have reduced the number of subsidised vehicles in my department , the only man who is having a subsidised vehicle is myself . accidents that are occuring .

But what is pertubing me is the number of

You find that an officer who has been allocated with

a subsidised car travel for three years without having an accident and now suddenly when he is given an official car he is involved in accidents time and again .

However I

wish to point out that where we could determine that the officer was neglegent we do make him pay , but most of our officers are accident free .

This is a pertubing factor

and I think you would take cognisance of , and this is due to lack of control and responsibility .

( Mr. Mushwana ) So in your opinion Mr. Matthews do you think that it

will pay the government better if we were using a system of subsidised vehicles than allocating government vehicles? - (Mr. Matthews)

Mr. Chairman , I would not like to

answer you because the Cabinet took a decision , but the matter is still under review . I think the Department of Works has worked out a schedule and handed it to the Treasury and I think it will cost us two million more to run official transport compared to running subsidised vehicles .

We did have problems with subsidised

transport , and as

Chairman of the committee , I knew we had problems because some of the officers over used their vehicles so as to cover extra kilometres in an endeavour to have the vehicle paid- up within a short period .

But if we can allocate a certain number

of kilometres to a man , and make a ruling that if he do exceed the allocated kilometres , he had to pay for the extra kilometres , then I think we may be able to control the vehicles .

I want to be honest and I would like to point out that subsidised cars in

other departments were so freely given by secretaries to the staff .

For an exaple ,

a man who is travelling 2500 kilometres per year is not entitled to get a subsidised vehicles , and it was found that people who used not to travel began travelling a lot when they were allocated with subsidised vehicles .

That was also a factor which

persuaded the government to do away with subsidised cars .

Another problem was that

where a man used a van to do his work previously , now he wanted a car to do the same work .

- 54 -

This made him not to carry the required material in his car , instead another van was sent to carry the material to the plot which resulted in the misuse of transport .

109.

Mr. Mushwana . )

Mr. Matthews , could you please give an indication of the total

kilometres travelled by each subsidised vehicle - (Mr . Matthews )

for the year under review?

Mr. Chairman , I have got a schedule in front of me and I would like

to explain why each vehicle had travelled many kilometres .

Vehicle HCJ 801 T was

allocated to Mr. O.C. Mavanyisi , who is an urban representative has travelled 68043 official kilometres and 1572 private kilometres making a total of 69615.

He

travelled about 5000 kilometres per month , which is relatively high , but being an Urban Representative he had to travel a lot .

After he has completed his vehicle

kilometre life span , he was allocated with an official transport , and his number of kilometres per month has been reduced ; GY 2716 was allocated to Mr. I. MacFadyen who who is the head of the Nature Conservation Division and has travelled 65575 official kilometres .

We had one vehicle in that section during the year under review and he

had to travel to all the districts of Gazankulu and he is on duty 24 hours a day. He also no longer has a subsidised car and his official mileage has been limited to 3000 a month .

Vehicle HWB 608T was allocated to Mr. T.W. Tshabalala who was also

an Urban Representative and he has travelled 50368 official kilometres .

I just want

to point out that it is difficult to control a man who is very far away , GY 2455 was allocated to E.P. Nwankoti and he travelled 38764 official kilometres and 10990 private kilometres .

He averaged at about 3000 kilometres per month for he was

controlling 600 drought relief projects which bound him to travel a lot .

GY 2745

which was allocated to M.S. Mhlarhi who was also a controlling officer of the drought relief projects travelled 3532 official kilometres and 14229 private kilometres making a total of 40557.

GY 3056 was allocated to Mr. T.H. Khosa who is

the head of the Information Division travelled 45697 official kilometres and 9138 private kilometres ; G3128 was allocated to B. Gama who is the only law enforsement officer in the Nature Conversation Division and he had to travel all around the various districts ; GY 1983 which was allocated to Mr. R.W.P. Phakula who was also a controlling officer of the drought relief projects travelled 38369 official kilometres and 5296 private kilometres ; CY 2601 was allocated to Mr. R.M. Nyakane who travelled 39359 official kilometres and 3204 private kilometres ; GY 2165 was allocated to Mr. B. Mathye who is the head of Public Service Commission and he had to travel to Pretoria now and then , he has travelled 24469 official kilometres and 1856 private kilometres and GY 3672 which was allocated to myself and has travelled 31046 official kilometres and

4841 private kilometres .

20

- 55 -

GY 2165 was allocated to Mr. E.C. Nghatsane who travelled 21728 official kilometres 8507 private kilometres , allthough he was controlling officer the vehicle had an accident so it couldn't travel more kilometres .

TRIBAL LEVIES AND TRUST ACCOUNTS , PARAGRAPH 27(3)

110.

Mr. Ngobeni . )

Mr. Matthews , according to the Report two cases of theft of

community funds totalling R12 517 were discovered during the year under review . you please give more details?- ( Mr. Matthews )

Mr. Chairman , the first case was for

Mr. M.S.C. Tshabalala of Khomanani Tribal Authority who stole R6 457.

We discovered

this immediately and he was charged and sentenced to six years imprisonment . is still serving the sentence .

Could

He has no property to attach .

The man

When he comes out we

will try to make means to recover the money that he has stolen , unfortunately he did not contribute anything to pension fund .

The second case was for S.M. Maswanganyi of

the Hlaneki Tribal Authority , who stole R6 060-00 , he was also sentenced to six years imprisonment and he also is a man of straw.

111.

Mr. Hlayisi . )

(Mr. Matthews)

Mr. Matthews , were any steps taken to recover these losses?-

Mr. Chairman , we wrote to the Department of Justice asking them to

help us to recover the said amounts , they replied that the two accused were still serving their term of imprisonment and that it will cost us more to open legal proceedings than the amount that will be recovered .

They suggested that we should wait

untill their term of imprisonment is completed , then we can try to review the situation again.: (Mr. Hlavisi )

Mr. Matthews , are ་ there any steps taken to eliminate such

theft at the Tribal offices?- ( Mr. Matthews ) being checked once a week .

Yes , Mr. Chairman , their books are now

But our problem is one , you find that a man issues a

private receipt for the money he collects , and when we check his books we find that there was no money collected .

After a week or a month sometimes it does happen

that we get a tip that he is essuing false receipts .

If we do receive such tips we

try to investigate silently until enough evidence is found to hold him responsible . Sometimes we try to check them by waiting in a distant far from the offices , when people who were paying pass us, we ask for their receipts , which we take

back to the

to the offices to varify if the original and the duplicate are the same , for they have the tendency to remove carbon papers when they write be able to write

lesser amounts on the duplicate .

amount on the original so as to

The aforementioned makes it very

difficult for us to detect irregularities by checking his receipts books.

- 56 -

I wish also to point to this committee that there was another case in one of the Tribal Authorities , where the clerk who

was the relative of the Chief stole the money .

It was discovered that arrangement was made somehow with the prosecutor to decline prosecuting .

We however followed the case and insisted that the officer be brought

before the court of law where he was bound

guilty .

-- 57 -

RESOLUTION OF THE SESSIONAL COMMITTEE ON

PUBLIC

ACCOUNTS

FOR

1984

AND

TREASURY REPLY THEREON

RESOLUTION NO. 1

Your Committee begs to report that items of expenditure amounting to R4 622 898,73 specified in paragraph 4 , page 2 , of the Report of the Auditor - General on the Appropriation Accounts for 1982-83 ( G.R. 1984 ) are unauthorised and require to be voted .

Your Committee , having made enquiry into the circumstances , recommends the above sum for specific appropriation by the Legislative Assembly, apportioned as follows : On Revenue Services-

Vote 4- Education

R2 504 363,17

Vote 5- Agriculture and Forestry....

R1 865 334,60

Vote 7- Health and Welfare ....

R4 622 899,73

(Questions 1-6 , 80-82 , 89)

REPLY :

The recommended appropriation of R4 622 898,73 was disposed of by the passing of the Gazankulu Unauthorised Expenditure ( 1982/83 ) Act , 1984 ( Act no . 3 of 1984 ) during the 1984 session of the Legislative Assembly .

SECRETARY TO THE TREASURY GAZANKULU GOVERNMENT

物

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