Roy Buchanan Nancy Telecaster mod
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"Don Mare's $.50 Cent Nancy Pickup Mod" Discussion in 'Just Pickups' started by Don Mare, Sep 1, 2011. Page 1 of 3
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Sep 1, 2011
#1
Don Mare's $.50 Cent Nancy Mod .005 cap in series on the bridge pickups Hot wire next try to use a cranked Fender Vibrolux, Deluxe, or Twin max out Treble, and Bass (10) or adjust to taste.. Don Mare TeleAfflicted Posts: Joined: Location:
1,640
Wanna hear me playing the real 1953 Tele that Roy Buchanan nicked named Nancy go to www.roybuchanan.org and hit; (MUSIC)
Mar 22, 2003 CA.
Basically Nancy's bridge pickup is broken ( always was ) at least it was from the dayone that Roy Traded the Purple Les Paul for her!... yet she still worked fine but had high treble and a chainsaw like AM Transistor Radio distortion hanging on the notes, also she sounded innocent when being played wildly.. yet do that on any other Tele and its not the same, it gets messy fast! LOL Over the years Ive heard of,_and now own pickups_that broke inside just like that one on Nancy, and they all still work fine except they seemed to loose lots of bass, and they too will not read ohms at all. So the trick was to take a capacitance reading... but that took me 8 years to realize to do that!
All these pickups I had that did that Nancy thing were pretty much reading .005 on a cap meter! so I tried a .005 cap in series on the hot and knew that my eight year tone chase was allDONE but how a pickup becomes a capacitor on its own is what I want to know next, ( any help?) also there's another cap in series in Nancy its a .1 cap basically placed at the jack. there's a schematic up at my site for Real Nancy wiring its what I documented while under the hood of Nancy, anywhoooo... cats out of the bag,
please enjoy my "Don Mare's $.50 Cent Nancy Mod" And have a nice day my friends!
Don
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#2
Hey Don, you just created a bunch of dumpster divers ! GREAT info
sjtalon Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member Posts: Joined:
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Sep 1, 2011
#3
Wow, Don, Thanks for sharing. Because of your other Nancy thread, I looked up Roy Buchanan on Youtube today. I may have to try this mod!
Commodore 64 Friend of Leo's Age: Posts: Joined: Location:
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Sep 1, 2011
#4
Great work Don!
Ron Garson Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter Age:
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#5
are these essentially what was included in a tapped nancy set from a year ago?
gypsymoth TeleMeister Posts:
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#6
Think if the wire is broken in the middle of the coil you wind up with two half coils that would be effectively act as the plates of a small condensor, and as coils at the same time. Analyzing this would be a nightmare, but it seems ripe for benchtop experimentation I wonder what a bifilar wind would do? Wind two magnet wires (a & b, call the ends a1, b1, a2, b2; wire a not connected electrically to wire be internally) at the same time, and connect say a1 to ground and b2 to hot. This could also give you the means of adding a switch outside the pickup to connect a2 to b1.
Bolide Friend of Leo's Posts: Joined:
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Sep 1, 2011
#7
sounds like something similar to what happens to old ceramic disc caps when the two discs inside start to resonate and become a microphone essentially. as for this nancy mod, it IS the traditional bridge pickup wiring on ric guitars AFAIK. putting that .0048 cap in series with the ric bridge pickup does some really cool stuff namely: flip the phase of the high trebles (causing a mild chorusing), and cutting out some low bass. it's funny, i was thinking about wiring my esquire's pickup like a ric to see what it sounded like. hoping for a weird tele/ric jangle/twang hybrid.
vanguard Friend of Leo's Posts:
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i assume this nancy mod does similar to a tele bridge pup? i.e. less bass, more treble? if one doesn't want less bass and more treble, does it have any other tonal gifts that make it worth a go?
Sep 1, 2011
#8
Forgot to mention, Quality caps make a diff.. here. my best results were with old foil paper waxie caps of .002 to .005
ALSO, bear in mind, that Nancy's capacitance happened naturally, and I've noticed that when it happens all its own.. there is more essence and body to the sound... it seems the cap mod takes a little away, but to compensate here we just crank the heck out of the amp! LOL
Don Mare TeleAfflicted Posts: Joined: Location:
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also because Nancy's coil was broken at some point its going to have a low DC like 4k or 5k we think. so if you do have a pickup that low, try a .0035cap for closer results.. but because Nancy is unique and its happened naturally somehow... your results will vary, in most cases you'll get "Nancys Sister or Cousin" but chances of anyone ever creating a dead on perfect clone is like lightning striking twice in the same spot... but being this close and creating slightly different versions is pretty cool!! I'd love to hear some test clips form anyone whose testing this all out for themselves..
Sep 1, 2011
#9
Agree on the 'two coil making up the plates of a cap' theory. Your cap in the tone circuit bleeds high freq's to ground (more bass). With the broken coil wire you have no direct path for any frequency EXCEPT those high
enough to cross the 'coil/cap'. My guess is the position of the break was fortunate to be somewhere around the middle of the coil (+/) to make the 'capacitor'. If it had happened too far towards either end of the coil it would have just gone dead.
cband7 Friend of Leo's Posts:
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You have just created an analog simulation of an analog failure!!!
Oct 27, 2007
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Sep 2, 2011
#10
I gotta squier standard tele that I use fir experiments and it only got a bridge pickup that I built in it with a vol. And tone. The pickup is alnico 3 and its wound to about 6.5k. I just added a random cheap ceramic disk .33 cap that I had laying around to the pickup hot lead just to see what it sounded like. Holy crap! What a difference! It ain't like roys tone, but it opened her up! Sounds like the tone I've had in my head all along... I got a bunch of other cap values to try. Got a couple ducati .47s and some others to try. I'm not going for roys tone, but thank you for the great idea! It's changed my world! Cant wait to keep experimenting!
southwoodgtars TeleHolic Posts:
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#11 Don Mare said: but how a pickup becomes a capacitor on its own is what I want to know next, ( any help?)
geetarfreek82 TeleAfflicted Posts:
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I've talked to a few people about this, and the general consensus is that the coating of the wire wore away somehow and that the coil is actually shorting against a magnet... I've heard of people taking DCR readings of supposedly "dead" pickups (i.e. reading open on an ohm meter) by touching one lead to either the hot or ground wire of a pickup and touching the other lead to each magnet until you get a reading.
Jun 7, 2010
Location:
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Sep 2, 2011
#12
http://boingboing.net/2009/03/04/videoexplainswhat.html thanks for all the helpful info, friends! here's, a Educational Clip on how to make caps.. and whats all inside one etc.. Don Mare
I got a idea to _try_ and fully recreate a "natural" Nancy Pickup...
TeleAfflicted Posts:
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#13 geetarfreek82 said: ↑ I've talked to a few people about this, and the general consensus is that the coating of the wire wore away somehow and that the coil is actually shorting against a magnet... I've heard of people taking DCR readings of supposedly "dead" pickups (i.e. reading open on an ohm meter) by touching one lead to either the hot or ground wire of a pickup and touching the other lead to each magnet until you get a reading.
Don Mare TeleAfflicted Posts:
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That's a good idea, but I did not get any readings trying that with the two natural Nancy pickups that I've got here in my hands... I wonder if that test may be for completely dead pickups that do not work with a amp? lots of old fenders did fail from just that, but those go all the way dead.. at least the ones I've rewound
#14
I personally had a pickup out of a mid 80's AVRI '52 that read open but worked fine. It was a filthy, rusted mess and had that thin unique tone you spoke of. Unfortunately the wire was cut off to be rewound before I learned of this test.
geetarfreek82 TeleAfflicted Posts:
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#15
just tried it out in my CV BSB for the hell of it. interesting tone for sure. only sounds "good" wide open on both pots. the volume pot acts more like a tone pot, and the tone pot basically becomes a midpass filter. it would be cool to put this in a push/pull for the occasional "lofi" effect, but i can't imagine putting it in a guitar full time. took it back out after about a half hour of foolin around with it. when i plugged 'er back in without the cap it made me realize how much i love this stuart bridge pup. vanguard Friend of Leo's Posts:
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#16 Don Mare said: ↑ . it seems the cap mod takes a little away, but to compensate here we just crank the heck out of the amp! LOL
Well who is going to want to do that ?? robt57 Telefied Ad Free Member Posts:
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#17
Nancy full time is not in the majority's best interest. IMHO Roy may not have known that guitar was from outer space and just winged it???:?:
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#18
Wonder what this would do on a humbucker?
gtrplr TeleHolic Age: Posts:
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#19
I think I'm going to try this
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#20
Thanks for sharing this, Don. Good to see you are still on the hunt for great tone.
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"Don Mare's $.50 Cent Nancy Pickup Mod" Discussion in 'Just Pickups' started by Don Mare, Sep 1, 2011. Page 2 of 3
Sep 3, 2011
#21
Thanks Don and glad you didn't take this to the grave. The knowledge here is unbelievable sometimes......
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#22
I remember you hinting at the secret ohm reading on "Nancy" a while back. I suspected a shorted coil winding or possibly the metal pickup cover as the cause of this. Thanks, Don.
JuSteve Former Member Posts: Joined: Location:
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373 Apr 9, 2011 S. Central, Pa.
#23
I have a set of Don's 2324 p/us in a spruce topped, chambered ash Chandler body tele. With the Nancy mod. Took this guitar up to a guys house, plugged into a rather nice amp (a Pure 64 6v6 head). He was amazed at the clean sounds, had never heard anything like it. However you set it, with the Nancy boost on or off, this guitar makes a big impression. I got this partscaster out of curiosity about Don's p/us, the Nancy feature in particular. Very happy I did.
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#24
Can you make it switchable?
mojotele65 TeleMeister Age:
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#25
Mojo: I'll bet Don could tell you how. The Nancy mod as he supplied it on my p/u set is switchable. Pull the tone knob for normal, modern tele p/u combinations. Push the knob in, you get 50s neck p/u with the bassier sound, the modern bridge only, and the bridge only with Nancy switched on. mad dog Friend of Leo's Posts:
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Makes for an even more versatile guitar, and teles can do it all to begin with. MD
Sep 10, 2011
#26
Great work
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#27
Don, thanks for being so open and forthcoming with this info. I too believe in sharing openly and this thread is just terrific! I'm going to a small guitar show next month and you know I'll have my meter in hand just in case I run across one of these "broken" pickups. I love the hunt! Telenator Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member Posts:
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#28
yep using a "switch" is really the best way to enjoy this sound on a whim...
Don Mare TeleAfflicted Posts: Joined: Location:
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#29
Wow, two pups have a beautiful sound. Thanks. I have a C.White pair and each day I'm more happy with them.
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That sounds like an easy (for someone else) stomp box project too.
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#31 Don Mare said: ↑ http://boingboing.net/2009/03/04/videoexplainswhat.html thanks for all the helpful info, friends! here's, a Educational Clip on how to make caps.. and whats all inside one etc..
rumbler5467
I got a idea to _try_ and fully recreate a "natural" Nancy Pickup...
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I'll try it next week!.
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Sep 21, 2011
#32 Don Mare said: ↑
Nancy full time is not in the majority's best interest. IMHO Roy may not have known that guitar was from outer space and just winged it???:?:
rumbler5467 TDPRI Member Posts:
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yeah Don I noticed in the tele talk video by Noah Gold that RB talked about how he had raised the bridge pup way up to balance better with the neck despite the popular convention of not doing so. And the tone in that vid is all there too ...Nancy >outboard reverb>bassman at room volume even! Jeff
Sep 25, 2011
#33
Is there a way to put this in the "bassy " position of an Esquire while leaving the other two settings alone?
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#34 Jaxson612 said: ↑ Is there a way to put this in the "bassy " position of an Esquire while leaving the other two settings alone?
should be able too.. you want to remove any cap or resistor from that portion, and somehow get the .005 cap _In Series_ on the foward setting...
Don Mare TeleAfflicted Posts: Joined: Location:
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I was thinking The Eldred Mod.. but the cap in that mod is grounded, we dont want to ground the .005, but keep it In Series instead.
Mar 22, 2003 CA.
when I cant think of wiring in my head I use Jumper Cables with Alligator clips to fool around till I get it working, my first jump (test) would be take the other end of the cap (off of the ground) and then run it to the volume pots middle lug (shown in red) and test to see if its correct or not?.. [ IMG]
( I once actually wired a Eric Clapton 25db _onBoard_ mid Boost into a pedal, all by using jumpers till it worked)
pedal, all by using jumpers till it worked)
Sep 28, 2011
#35
Thanks, Don !Gonna give it a whirl.
Jaxson612 TeleMeister Posts:
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#36
I've got a switch that puts various caps in series with the pups to cut the low end, bring back articulation under high gain. The bass cut is increased greatly by lowering the load resistance down to about 20k ohms; try plugging your guitar into a line input (typically around 20k ohm load) with the series cap installed and you'll see.
madzub TDPRI Member Posts:
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I had a tapped tele pickup in my guitar a while back, tapped at about 5k ohms, full was about 7.3k ohms. I tried wiring it up with the tap connecting wires disconnected, so it was essentially a 7.3k ohm pickup with an open circuit at the 5k mark, so it read O ohms on the meter. It sounded just like Roy's. fairly weak, but cranked up it screamed and cried. And of course it was wired to a switch, so i could get regular tone too.
Oct 2, 2011
#37
**
Last edited: Oct 2, 2011
madzub TDPRI Member Posts: Joined: Location:
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#38 gtrplr said: ↑ Wonder what this would do on a humbucker?
well this kinda sounds like Artie's demud mod, which is primarily used to cut the bass on humbuckers. http://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/showthread.php? t=68292
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#39
Don, Help a dumbass out. For Esquire configuation , where does the .005 go. You said in your post with the Eldrid diagram you had to lift the ground on the cap, but where do you put the other end of the cap? Do you both ends in the same switch lug?
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#40
Is the story about Roy's bridge pickup having a loose base plate a myth? If not, does that combined with this mod make said loose base plate pickup more manageable?
RatherBeFishing TeleAfflicted Posts: Joined:
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I don't understand a lot of this but please explain the physics of a broken coil that still makes sound... If the wire is broken deep inside the coil, does it still touch the surrounding wire retaining the pickups output? This is awesome stuff. Thanks so much for sharing Don. Guys like you with posts like this are what drive TDPRI.
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New Threads Tremolo won't olo. ArcticWhite posted 2 minutes ago Songs with dramatic string... StrangerNY posted 7 minutes ago Recovering Files from Hard Drive Tarnisher posted 18 minutes ago RIP LarsGöran Petrov at 49. johnny k posted 31 minutes ago 120+ years old board into body? Telekarster posted Today at 1:23 PM
New Posts Tremolo won't olo. ArcticWhite replied 2 minutes ago Songs with dramatic string... StrangerNY replied 7 minutes ago Recovering Files from Hard Drive telleutelleme replied 5 minutes ago RIP LarsGöran Petrov at 49. johnny k replied 31 minutes ago 120+ years old board into body? Telekarster replied 5 minutes ago MF Stupid Deal DARCO PB Light... Chiogtr4x replied Today at 1:14 PM Americana Recommendations Jim622 replied 5 minutes ago "Never Too Young to Die" the... bender66 replied 16 minutes ago Who has cut down a fender... Telecentric replied 5 minutes ago Guitar of the Day: 1978 Fender... glenlivet replied Today at 12:21 PM NGDSG or What does GC "fair"... Electric Warrior replied 49 minutes ago Anyone remember Illusion Pickups? shallbe replied Today at 11:59 AM
NGD FA VW Garage Master Chuckster replied Today at 12:00 PM Help me date Blackface /... Ten Over replied Today at 12:42 PM
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"Don Mare's $.50 Cent Nancy Pickup Mod" Discussion in 'Just Pickups' started by Don Mare, Sep 1, 2011. Page 3 of 3